 Anyone here recognize this camshaft? |
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| hasaramat |
 Dec 12 2009, 05:28 PM
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#1
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Member  Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 23-November 08 From: Utah Member No.: 9,782 Region Association: None  |
Looking at this cam on ebay but I cant seem to find out where it is from. Anybody here got any idea? I hope the links works.
ebay |
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| Eric_Shea |
Dec 12 2009, 06:30 PM
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#2
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,304 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains  |
Grandbury, silly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hide.gif)
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| McMark |
Dec 12 2009, 06:43 PM
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#3
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,180 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Why?
It's an unknown cam, the lifters and the cam may not be the same company or the same production run, so they may not be the same hardness. If you buy it you're risking a poor running motor from an improper cam profile, or worse, a flat cam which can destroy the rest of your motor, just like this piston out of a flat cam motor. But, to answer your question, no I don't recognize it. Both WebCam and Engle cams come in boxes with their names on them. This is not a WebCam or and Engle. Attached image(s) 
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| ME733 |
Dec 13 2009, 09:55 AM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 842 Joined: 25-June 08 From: Atlanta Ga. Member No.: 9,209 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(McMark @ Dec 12 2009, 07:43 PM)  Why? It's an unknown cam, the lifters and the cam may not be the same company or the same production run, so they may not be the same hardness. If you buy it you're risking a poor running motor from an improper cam profile, or worse, a flat cam which can destroy the rest of your motor, just like this piston out of a flat cam motor. But, to answer your question, no I don't recognize it. Both WebCam and Engle cams come in boxes with their names on them. This is not a WebCam or and Engle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) ............A FLAT cam, means that, in the begginning, there was no taper ground into the lobe....WHAT!!!!.....thats right GUYS camshaft lobes have a .5 to 1 degree angle GROUND INTO the lobe. This induces the LIFTER to spin/rotate with every cam lobe cycle, creating even wear for all the moving parts in the valvetrain and promoting lubrication for/to the cam and lifters... A" flat cam " is one that is worn down or manufactured WITH OUT an included ( perpendular) angle in the lobes..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) I do agree that buying a camshaft on e-bay is just N U T S ! |
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| hasaramat |
Dec 13 2009, 11:19 AM
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 23-November 08 From: Utah Member No.: 9,782 Region Association: None |
OK OK OK, no e-bay camshafts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
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| ME733 |
Dec 13 2009, 03:55 PM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 842 Joined: 25-June 08 From: Atlanta Ga. Member No.: 9,209 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(hasaramat @ Dec 13 2009, 12:19 PM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)..were not busting you b----, for fun. we just don't want you wasting your hard earned money on junk. .. a sincere MERRY CHRISTMAS.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) |
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| McMark |
Dec 13 2009, 04:01 PM
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#7
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,180 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(ME733 @ Dec 13 2009, 07:55 AM) QUOTE(McMark @ Dec 12 2009, 07:43 PM) Why? It's an unknown cam, the lifters and the cam may not be the same company or the same production run, so they may not be the same hardness. If you buy it you're risking a poor running motor from an improper cam profile, or worse, a flat cam which can destroy the rest of your motor, just like this piston out of a flat cam motor. But, to answer your question, no I don't recognize it. Both WebCam and Engle cams come in boxes with their names on them. This is not a WebCam or and Engle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Thats a forged piston...It failed because the three piece (SET)OIL CONTROL RAILS were not installed. the centerpart/ as it was not restrained, expanded to the cylinderwall and ate itself and the cylinderwall,s up. the mammoth galling of the piston could also be from improper piston to cylinder wall clearances. a quick death in two directions. .............A FLAT cam, means that, in the begginning, there was no taper ground into the lobe....WHAT!!!!.....thats right GUYS camshaft lobes have a .5 to 1 degree angle GROUND INTO the lobe. This induces the LIFTER to spin/rotate with every cam lobe cycle.,( creating even wear for all the moving parts in the valvetrain.).................A" flat cam " is not going to destroy the piston, especially to the extent shown.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) I do agree that buying a camshaft on e-bay is just N U T S ! You sure know a lot about a complete motor from one picture. Too bad most of it is WRONG. I'm not even going to waste time rebutting you, since odds are you won't believe me anyway since you apparently already think you know everything. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) |
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| ME733 |
Dec 13 2009, 04:15 PM
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#8
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 842 Joined: 25-June 08 From: Atlanta Ga. Member No.: 9,209 Region Association: South East States |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) ...so YOU...must have built this engine...any Idea how the "flat cam" occured?, who were the manufacturer,s... It sure spit out some metal into the crankcase, and into the cylinders. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
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| McMark |
Dec 13 2009, 07:17 PM
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#9
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,180 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
*sigh*
The missing oil control rings were removed before the picture was taken. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Flat cam has nothing to do with the angle of taper, it has to do with this: (IMG:http://www.originalcustoms.com/invoice/images/large_images/38_036371800%201182323543.jpg) |
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| Mark Henry |
Dec 14 2009, 07:05 AM
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#10
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
Good thing you didn't buy it, sounds like hydraulic cam and solid lifters. Nice combo....not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
But it could also be a european motorworks H grind, basiclly a Scat C-25 copy. If it is, it's a mild carb cam, on carbs it give's you no more power than a good D-jet. ME733 There are several very experienced peeps on this board who make their living building engines and restoring 914's, McMark is one of them. His shop is in Napa, CA where`s yours? |
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| ME733 |
Dec 14 2009, 08:04 AM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 842 Joined: 25-June 08 From: Atlanta Ga. Member No.: 9,209 Region Association: South East States |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) ..mark henry..my shop is at my home. but it,s MY SHOP and I rarely do any work for any one, except myself any more. sinse about 1970, starting with 356, then 911,s and 914,s. my business , BLACK FOREST ENGINEERING focused on scca, and then vintage racing porsches. I had the 1st registered 356, in vintage racing..(in the world?) In the united states..log book #18....could have been (9) but I liked 18 better..( I think that was 1978).. chief of technical inspection WMC and SVRA...about the first...12-or so years. runnoffs tech inspector /RD atlanta runnoffs, IMSA tech inspector daytona. I could go on but the long and short of it is I am RETIRED I am my own best customer...no more race date deadlines. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
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| Mark Henry |
Dec 14 2009, 09:29 AM
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#12
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(ME733 @ Dec 14 2009, 09:04 AM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) ..mark henry..my shop is at my home. but it,s MY SHOP and I rarely do any work for any one, except myself any more. sinse about 1970, starting with 356, then 911,s and 914,s. my business , BLACK FOREST ENGINEERING focused on scca, and then vintage racing porsches. I had the 1st registered 356, in vintage racing..(in the world?) In the united states..log book #18....could have been (9) but I liked 18 better..( I think that was 1978).. chief of technical inspection WMC and SVRA...about the first...12-or so years. runnoffs tech inspector /RD atlanta runnoffs, IMSA tech inspector daytona. I could go on but the long and short of it is I am RETIRED I am my own best customer...no more race date deadlines. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Cool...but I bet there's at least a hundred members here that have a very similar story. My point is you made a comment that wasn't even anywhere close to being right. |
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| tat2dphreak |
Dec 14 2009, 09:38 AM
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#13
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stoya, stoya, stoya Group: Benefactors Posts: 8,797 Joined: 6-June 03 From: Wylie, TX Member No.: 792 Region Association: Southwest Region  |
ignoring the usual BS,
you can think about this very logically... an unknown cam from a no-name box with nothing known about duration or lift, for $50, or your choice of a known cam in new condition to your choice of durations and lift for about $150... to me, even though its more $ on paper, it's a no-brainer. you also need the RIGHT lifters to go with the cam, they need to match hardness to be right... guys like Jake, McMark, Mark Henry, etc can help you figure out what cam choice is right for your application and that advise from well-experienced individuals will cost you nothing. you can probably even find it in a search. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) |
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| ME733 |
Dec 14 2009, 09:49 AM
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#14
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 842 Joined: 25-June 08 From: Atlanta Ga. Member No.: 9,209 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Dec 14 2009, 10:29 AM) QUOTE(ME733 @ Dec 14 2009, 09:04 AM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) ..mark henry..my shop is at my home. but it,s MY SHOP and I rarely do any work for any one, except myself any more. sinse about 1970, starting with 356, then 911,s and 914,s. my business , BLACK FOREST ENGINEERING focused on scca, and then vintage racing porsches. I had the 1st registered 356, in vintage racing..(in the world?) In the united states..log book #18....could have been (9) but I liked 18 better..( I think that was 1978).. chief of technical inspection WMC and SVRA...about the first...12-or so years. runnoffs tech inspector /RD atlanta runnoffs, IMSA tech inspector daytona. I could go on but the long and short of it is I am RETIRED I am my own best customer...no more race date deadlines. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) Cool...but I bet there's at least a hundred members here that have a very similar story. My point is you made a comment that wasn't even anywhere close to being right. Based upon the imperical evidance, observation , of the photograph furnished it was. However the oil control rings were partially disassembled prior to the photograph. I have a discussion going on now with mcmark. a broken camshaft, which was not shown certainly contributed to the total mess....and he didn't manufacture the cam, obviously. and the possibility of a severly overreved engine cannot be excluded. |
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| Eric_Shea |
Dec 14 2009, 10:02 AM
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#15
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,304 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
What? No popcorn emoticon?
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| J P Stein |
Dec 14 2009, 10:14 AM
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#16
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Since when is a wrong answer here a felony...particularly when the evidence is misleading. If I had a buck for every shakey answer here, I could retire.
BTW, at best those Deves style oil rings are shit. Here's another pic of them POSs. Attached image(s) 
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| aircooledtechguy |
Dec 14 2009, 11:30 AM
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#17
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The Aircooledtech Guy Group: Members Posts: 1,966 Joined: 8-November 08 From: Anacortes, WA Member No.: 9,730 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Gentlemen,. . . FOCUS. . . I thought p3n!s measuring belonged in the sandbox?? This is what I tell my clients when one of them asks the same question about buying a cam/lifter set. . . You can't "un-bolt" a cam. There's no easy way to try one out w/o tearing the whole motor down. So unless you enjoy building your motor over again, think long and hard on the cam selection and/or consult those who have more experience successfully building engines for guidance. Proper cam selection is critical to getting a motor to behave the way you want and expect. Simply put; It's the conductor of the orchestra. The rest of the motor depends on its input and it affects every phase of the motor. If you let price be your guide to cam selection, you will be disappointed in your motor when finished; guaranteed. Just my .02. . . |
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| SLITS |
Dec 14 2009, 11:45 AM
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#18
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
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| jasons |
Dec 14 2009, 01:40 PM
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#19
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Jackstand Extraordinaire Group: Members Posts: 2,011 Joined: 19-August 04 From: Scottsdale, AZ Member No.: 2,573 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Dec 14 2009, 06:05 AM) But it could also be a european motorworks H grind, basiclly a Scat C-25 copy. If it is, it's a mild carb cam, on carbs it give's you no more power than a good D-jet. In my parts stash, I have a cam from EMW that is in a box just like that one. So I will say this, that box looks like a box I got from EMW like 10 years ago. FWIW, the cam I have came with Johnson lifters. |
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| Mark Henry |
Dec 14 2009, 02:41 PM
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#20
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(jasons @ Dec 14 2009, 02:40 PM) QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Dec 14 2009, 06:05 AM) But it could also be a european motorworks H grind, basiclly a Scat C-25 copy. If it is, it's a mild carb cam, on carbs it give's you no more power than a good D-jet. In my parts stash, I have a cam from EMW that is in a box just like that one. So I will say this, that box looks like a box I got from EMW like 10 years ago. FWIW, the cam I have came with Johnson lifters. Yup...I saw the box and remembered EMW had cams they just called A, B, C, etc In fact who ever got it might have done OK, it could be pre-issues camshaft. |
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