Idle thought - coat braided ss brake lines? Options

[smontanaro]

I happened to click on Eric's Read this first link in his sig today and was skimming the resulting thread about brakes. I read this:

What about braided stainless flex hoses?

These are commonly available, and people like them because they give better feel. Or so they think. The actual feel difference between fresh rubber hoses and braided lines is actually pretty small, and the improvement people note is usually wishful thinking, or they're replacing tired rubber lines with fresh stainless lines. The danger with stainless lines is that they require more maintenance and attention than rubber lines. Stainless lines are a braided covering over a Teflon hose. The braid is usually exposed, and gets dirty. This dirt works itself into the braid and begins chafing the relatively fragile Teflon hose underneath. This most often happens at the ends of the hose, near or under the crimped-on fittings. Given enough time, the Teflon hose will fail, usually with no warning. The result is a brake pedal that goes straight to the floor. If a front line fails, it also means nearly zero stopping power.

and then wondered... Would it be possible to coat braided SS brake lines with that latex stuff (or something similar) that you can dip wrench handles and such in? I would think the hose would still be flexible enough, but the latex would prevent the dirt infiltration of the braiding.

S

[Bartlett 914]

I happened to click on Eric's Read this first link in his sig today and was skimming the resulting thread about brakes. I read this:

What about braided stainless flex hoses?

These are commonly available, and people like them because they give better feel. Or so they think. The actual feel difference between fresh rubber hoses and braided lines is actually pretty small, and the improvement people note is usually wishful thinking, or they're replacing tired rubber lines with fresh stainless lines. The danger with stainless lines is that they require more maintenance and attention than rubber lines. Stainless lines are a braided covering over a Teflon hose. The braid is usually exposed, and gets dirty. This dirt works itself into the braid and begins chafing the relatively fragile Teflon hose underneath. This most often happens at the ends of the hose, near or under the crimped-on fittings. Given enough time, the Teflon hose will fail, usually with no warning. The result is a brake pedal that goes straight to the floor. If a front line fails, it also means nearly zero stopping power.

and then wondered... Would it be possible to coat braided SS brake lines with that latex stuff (or something similar) that you can dip wrench handles and such in? I would think the hose would still be flexible enough, but the latex would prevent the dirt infiltration of the braiding.

S

That might work but the question I would ask is why use the SS hose at all? If you cover them, then the "Bling factor" will be lost. Are the SS ones better at all? I have them on my car. I put them on many years ago. I didn't know about their failure problems. Before I drive it again next year, I will probably put new standard ones on.

[jmill]

Oh man, here we go. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

[Mike Bellis]

I've use both types of lines. The pedal feel will be stiffer with the braided lines. Rubber lines expand slightly with hydraulic pressure. I'm not sure which is better over time but I do like the feel of SS brake lines.
Beware>> Some SS lines are not DOT approved for street use. shop around carefully.

[SirAndy]

Just get the rubber lines, inspect them once a year and be done with it.

We run the braided lines on the 911 racecar. They get a close inspection *every* weekend before we get out on the track. They also get replaced at least once a year.

If neither of those two chores sounds appealing to you, the braided lines are not for you ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

[smontanaro]

I guess I wasn't clear/complete. The thread on brakes indicates that the main problem with braided ss lines is that dirt gets in, wears out the inner teflon hose and causes catastrophic failure when your car pees a bunch of brake fluid on the road. I have no plans to use braided lines on my car. My question was simply curiosity about why something like adding a latex coating isn't done to mitigate or eliminate this apparently well-known failure mode. If SS lines are used simply for the "cool" factor (think ricer) I would think that a nice bright blue coating/cover would look just as "cool" as the braided SS.

Again, just idle musings. It's a bit slow at work today.

S

[ConeDodger]

Heat shrink. Beware though, once you put heat shrink over them you can't inspect them.

[jcd914]

I have only seen a few sets of DOT approved SS brake line but all of them were covered in a clear plastic tube, covering the braided SS. You could see right thru it, might not even notice it was there if they were shrink wrapped to a card for display/sale. I don't know if the outer tubing was sealed at the ends or just slipped over.

I also have never seen a SS brake line that the inner Teflon hose failed. All the failures I have seen have been the end fitting coming off the line.

Jim

[Mike Bellis]

Heat shrink. Beware though, once you put heat shrink over them you can't inspect them.

You can get clear shrink tubing. might be a good idea to use on brand new SS lines. I wouldn't dare cover my dirty SS lines now.

I've never seen any SS lines that have failed. I'm sure it happens, but I've never seen one. I have seen rubber lines fail... Several.

[andys]

I have a 50" long Russell DOT braided stainless brake line I use for my hydraulic clutch. It is completely encased in a clear covering.

Andys

[SGB]

I've never seen any SS lines that have failed. I'm sure it happens, but I've never seen one. I have seen rubber lines fail... Several.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Rubber line failure resulted in the SS lines I now have...

(It was a little scary)

[DBCooper]

Just a heads-up, Teflon (PTFE) lines DO fail, but for different reasons than rubber lines. Rubber fails because it's just plain old, from misuse, weathering, or from new aggressive synthetic brake fluids. Teflon hose is far superior for all those things, but it's weakness is that it will lose its physical integrity if it's kinked. That shouldn't happen in use after it's on the car. It happens almost always during installation, for example when someone twists the hose on tightening, or lets unsupported calipers dangle. Once it's been kinked it's done, which is why the DOT-aproved teflon hoses have a rubber or plastic sleeve covering the hose a few inches up from the swages, to give some added strength in the area of the hose where it's easiest to kink. Unfortunately the damage from kinking is difficult (though not impossible) to see through the steel braid, so the best advice is to ALWAYS FOLLOW THE MANUFACTURER'S INSTRUCTIONS and don't misuse the hose! If you or your mechanic don't then very bad things could happen.

[bperry]

Heat shrink. Beware though, once you put heat shrink over them you can't inspect them.

You can get clear shrink tubing. might be a good idea to use on brand new SS lines. I wouldn't dare cover my dirty SS lines now.

But how would you get the shrink tubing on the lines? The attached fittings on each
end of the line are HUGE compared to the diameter of the actual line.

I don't think that the size of the shrink tubing that would go over the fittings
would shrink down far enough.

--- bill

[rfuerst911sc]

Just get the rubber lines, inspect them once a year and be done with it.

We run the braided lines on the 911 racecar. They get a close inspection *every* weekend before we get out on the track. They also get replaced at least once a year.

If neither of those two chores sounds appealing to you, the braided lines are not for you ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

Andy what exactly are you inspecting on these ? I didn't think you can see through the braid to actually see the inner core which is what will fail ? Or how do you inspect an end that may pop off ? Not being a wise ass I just want to learn. Thanks