 MPS- delving into it's secrets?, Update January 3, 2011 |
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| TJB/914 |
 Feb 28 2010, 08:30 AM
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#41
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Mid-Engn.  Group: Members Posts: 4,330 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Plymouth & Petoskey, MI Member No.: 346 Region Association: Upper MidWest 
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QUOTE(914Sixer @ Feb 28 2010, 05:35 AM)  (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I agree, amazing reading. My question?? Has anyone thought about a simple solution??? Contact Bosch engineering and ask for the material composition or who their supplier was?? Now that MPS's are obsolete Bosch might release this info from their engineering files. Somebody at Bosch knows. Just a thought (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I don't have any contacts, but maybe someone on the board knows someone??? How about George @ AA???? Tom |
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| jk76.914 |
Feb 28 2010, 11:33 AM
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#42
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
QUOTE(Thomas J Bliznik @ Feb 28 2010, 09:30 AM) QUOTE(914Sixer @ Feb 28 2010, 05:35 AM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I agree, amazing reading. My question?? Has anyone thought about a simple solution??? Contact Bosch engineering and ask for the material composition or who their supplier was?? Now that MPS's are obsolete Bosch might release this info from their engineering files. Somebody at Bosch knows. Just a thought (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) I don't have any contacts, but maybe someone on the board knows someone??? How about George @ AA???? Tom Great idea!! Other questions are whether the tooling still exists, would it be possible to arrange for one more run (maybe 500 pieces??), and if we could speak with someone who can shed some light on the design changes that Bosch made along the way... it's possible that more than one of these 5 diaphrams are original Bosch, just representing design evolution. Anybody have any connections at Bosch? (I'm having fun, though, so I'm going to pursue my trail further either way.) Jim |
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| pbanders |
Mar 1 2010, 11:14 AM
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#43
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 939 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 805 |
It would be great if we could get Bosch to supply a run of replacement diaprhagms.
I might point out that even if a replacement diaphragm were available, that rebuilding and calibrating the MPS isn't a trival thing. Here are the steps as I see it: 1. Remove the epoxy from the full load stop - don't attempt to remove the full load stop yet. 2. Drill out the case rivets to remove the top. 3. Using a 3/8" tip flat screwdriver (filed to fit the slot tightly), drive the full-load stop through and out of the top half of the case. Don't try to back it out, as there is epoxy holding the threads. Heat and WD-40 will help this operation. You may want to break it loose before drilling out the case rivets first, as it may make it easier to secure the MPS. 4. Remove the old diaphragm and remove the adjuster assembly from it, reinstall in the new diaphragm to approximately the same depth. Use a vernier to set it exactly. 5. Clean out the interior of the MPS with contact cleaner. 6. Install the diaphragm. Assuming we don't have a supply of new gaskets, install the old gasket, and use a thin layer of heavy grease to seal it. 7. Tap the case and bore the top to accept screws to secure the top. 8. Install the top, leave the full-load stop out for now. 9. Using the tables on my MPS page (see my sig for links) and a Wavetek LCR55 meter, set the inner and outer adjusters as described on the page. Install the full-load stop as described on the page. 10. At this point, the MPS is approximately adjusted and should work. To properly optimize the adjustment, you'll need to set the part load and full load mixtures using a dynamometer and a gas analyzer. Suggested settings for stock 2.0L motors are part-load (i.e. 2500 rpm, low throttle angle) at a CO of 2.5% to 3.0%, and a full-load (i.e. 4000 rpm, wide-open throttle angle) at a CO of 4.5% to 5.0%. To those out there who have done this before, please feel free to edit and correct this procedure as required. |
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| pbanders |
Mar 1 2010, 11:20 AM
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#44
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 939 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 805 |
QUOTE(jk76.914 @ Feb 28 2010, 10:33 AM) Anybody have any connections at Bosch? FWIW, this is the correct contact info in Germany. I've had a little bit of luck in the past, perhaps someone else will do better than I did. Robert Bosch GmbH Gasoline Systems Division P.O. Box 30 02 40 D-70442 Stuttgart Telephone +49 711 811-0 |
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| pbanders |
Mar 1 2010, 11:29 AM
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#45
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 939 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 805 |
FYI, are others aware of the Bosch Classic web shop on eBay?
http://stores.shop.ebay.de/Bosch-Klassik-T...g__W0QQ_armrsZ1 Not a lot of 914 parts, but some are there. |
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| pbanders |
Mar 1 2010, 06:02 PM
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#46
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 939 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 805 |
FWIW, I sent an email to the guy in Bosch Germany who was the press coordinator for the 40th anniversary of D-Jetronic to see if he can put us in touch with anyone at Bosch who might be able to help us out.
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| jk76.914 |
Mar 1 2010, 06:30 PM
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#47
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
QUOTE(pbanders @ Mar 1 2010, 07:02 PM) FWIW, I sent an email to the guy in Bosch Germany who was the press coordinator for the 40th anniversary of D-Jetronic to see if he can put us in touch with anyone at Bosch who might be able to help us out. That's a great lead. Better than cold calls to Bosch. |
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| jk76.914 |
Mar 1 2010, 06:45 PM
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#48
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
OK, some images from that -010 Volvo MPS. First the coil, with damper.
 Then a surprise- never seen one of these-   Any ideas what it could be for? I have an idea, but maybe someone knows for sure... Looks factory. Can't imagine a rebuilder tooling something like it. Cleaning a couple of housings with special purpose MPS cleaner....  |
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| jk76.914 |
Mar 1 2010, 07:09 PM
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#49
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
Nice clean housing. Not perfect, but not bad. You can see the vent holes I was talking about.
 Also, took apart that other alleged Volvo 142E unit. The non-leaking, riveted, -035. Found the holy grail of diaphrams- a perfect stock piece-  I'll profile it later.... Almost time for 24. Also found another of those plastic rings... Why do the two Volvo pieces have these? The cells fit inside, but it's a loose fit.... What're they for? |
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| Bleyseng |
Mar 2 2010, 09:21 AM
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#50
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,034 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(jk76.914 @ Mar 1 2010, 05:09 PM) . Also found another of those plastic rings... Why do the two Volvo pieces have these? The cells fit inside, but it's a loose fit.... What're they for? I have found a few in even the 914 MPSs. They are for holding the cells from flopping around. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) |
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| pbanders |
Mar 3 2010, 10:48 AM
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#51
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 939 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 805 |
FYI, I've made some interesting connections at Bosch, in the Bosch Automotive Tradition group, which is dedicated to supporting classics. I'll have some more info for everyone soon. They're starting a their own program of rebuilding components. They already can do the AAR, and will be starting rebuilding MPS's next month - to Bosch standards, with Bosch parts, and Bosch calibration standards. No idea of cost or logistics. Will pass on more info as I get it.
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| pbanders |
Mar 3 2010, 11:14 AM
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#52
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 939 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 805 |
OK, here's a bit more info. There's a newsletter you can subscribe to at the Bosch Automotive Tradition web site, see:
http://www.automotive-tradition.com/en/new...x.htm?locale=en Here's a link to the December issue: http://www.automotive-tradition.com/en/new...r_dez_09_en.pdf Open it and you'll see an item about "Individual Remanufacturing of Induction Tube Pressure Sensors" - a.k.a. the manifold pressure sensor. They have a link to their 1:1 REMAN site with more info. This site has a lot of information available over in the sidebar under "Parts". They're also interested in remanufacturing the throttle position sensor. Since we already have someone doing that, I'm going to try to get them hooked up. IMO, if we could get Bosch to do a rebuild and recalibrate at a "reasonable" price (IMO, $300 USD), these rebuilds would likely be as good as or superior to anything we'd be able to do on our own. Worth a try, at least. |
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| Katmanken |
Mar 3 2010, 02:18 PM
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#53
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You haven't seen me if anybody asks... Group: Members Posts: 4,738 Joined: 14-June 03 From: USA Member No.: 819 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
While you are on a roll,
Howsabout fuel injectors....... |
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| SirAndy |
Mar 3 2010, 02:33 PM
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#54
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,651 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(kwales @ Mar 3 2010, 12:18 PM) Howsabout fuel injectors....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) We should give them a list and have 1,000 members sign it ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Andy |
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| pbanders |
Mar 3 2010, 02:51 PM
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#55
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 939 Joined: 11-June 03 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 805 |
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Mar 3 2010, 01:33 PM) QUOTE(kwales @ Mar 3 2010, 12:18 PM) Howsabout fuel injectors....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) We should give them a list and have 1,000 members sign it ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Andy He asked me about other problematic parts, and fuel injectors were at the top of my list. |
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| jk76.914 |
Mar 3 2010, 06:55 PM
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#56
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
Brad's link links to Bosch Traditions, which in turn links to their storefront on eBay-Germany. They have all three of our fuel injectors! Take a look- about 160 Euro.
 Here's the link- http://cgi.ebay.de/0280150019-Einspritzven...=item1c0d943de0 and the yellow one (1.7) is here-  http://cgi.ebay.de/0280150009-Einspritzven...=item19b83b241c and the 1.8 is here- http://cgi.ebay.de/0280150112-Einspritzven...=item19b7831b74 |
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| jk76.914 |
Mar 3 2010, 07:17 PM
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#57
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
Did anybody say throttle position sensor?
Here's the 1.7L http://cgi.ebay.de/0280120021-Drosselklapp...=item1c0f9b1e8c  And just to tease us- here's an MPS for a Opel Admiral- Later type, no diaphram, but it's "only" 175 euro. If that's the ball park for a -037, -043, or -049, COUNT ME IN!! http://cgi.ebay.de/0280100105-Saugrohrdruc...=item19b5a0393d  |
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| computers4kids |
Mar 3 2010, 07:39 PM
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#58
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Love these little cars! Group: Members Posts: 2,443 Joined: 11-June 05 From: Port Townsend, WA Member No.: 4,253 Region Association: None |
Yikes...that's $218 US dollars (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
Great Thread and Read! Attached image(s) 
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| jk76.914 |
Mar 3 2010, 08:05 PM
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#59
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
QUOTE(computers4kids @ Mar 3 2010, 08:39 PM) OK. How'd you get the English version?!?!?!?!?! Jim |
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| jk76.914 |
Mar 3 2010, 08:55 PM
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#60
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
Nevermind. I found the english version at eBay-UK. Groan. They list a -066 MPS, which is our type with the diaphram, for 1050 euros. That's $1437. But that's brand new. (-066 is for a Volvo 3.0L six cylinder.) Maybe there's still hope for the 1-for-1 rebuild program.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bosch-0280100066-DRU...=item1c03b4aec3 |
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