How to keep/get Calif 914s' Old Original Plates ..., ... Resources & History of Plate Types & Colors, etc. Options

[underthetire]

I had the sunset plates on my first new car I ever bought! An 86 Escort GT! I liked those. The new plates are so ugly. I don't know about the bolt on tags. I was born at the tail end of the black/yellow plates.

[Tom_T]

on yearly reg. didn't they give yellow plates new year stamped corner pieces to bolt under the upper left corner?

extra trivia (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) the sought after white "sunset plates" were the first 2 years only i believe

Don't recall the bolt on year pieces. IIRC - the original year was stamped in one corner, then you got a new sticker every year with payment of fees - but they couldn't tell which month - ergo the change to left month & right year renewal stickers.

I have the sunsets on my 85 BMW 325e 2dr. from new, & I think it was 87 that they switched to plain red block lettered California & our 88 Westy has that since new. They catually cover all that in the milestones & plate history links I listed above.

More Trivia - pre-DMV days (pre-1922??) had dark Red Plates (more like Burgundy), & we have a few old Model A's & T's around Orange with them!

[Tom_T]

I had the sunset plates on my first new car I ever bought! An 86 Escort GT! I liked those. The new plates are so ugly. I don't know about the bolt on tags. I was born at the tail end of the black/yellow plates.

I was 10 when we moved from Pittsburgh PA to San Diego in `63 - you're just trying to make us old farts feel old! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

My first car in Fall 1969 - a 1968 Opel Kadette 2dr. 1.1L Sedan - had Blackies! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[kconway]

Clip from the DMV website you provided link to, note the last bullet...no go.

Additional details on definition of a "collector vehicle"



AA flares, big wheels...boned on count 2.

[orange914]

o.k. i stand corrected. the white sunsets started in 85' but i know they ran into 87 as i had a -shall i admit- 87 tempo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) with them

[underthetire]

I'm not tryin at all. Figure you'd know it after wrenching on the 914 all day. I can remember my dad saying how sore he was in the morning and said he must have slept wrong. As a kid i thought how can you mess up sleeping? Now I know. Some comedian is telling that as a joke now, dam it.

[underthetire]

o.k. i stand corrected. the white sunsets started in 85' but i know they ran into 87 as i had a -shall i admit- 87 tempo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) with them

I don't remember my 88 mustang GT convertible having the sunset plates.

[Tom_T]

o.k. i stand corrected. the white sunsets started in 85' but i know they ran into 87 as i had a -shall i admit- 87 tempo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) with them

I don't remember my 88 mustang GT convertible having the sunset plates.

Nope - changed the year before in 87, according to DMV site. We got our 88 Westy 4/16/88 with plain ole red block lettered "CALIFORNIA" at the top,as I'm sure your `Stang had.

[Tom_T]

Clip from the DMV website you provided link to, note the last bullet...no go.

Additional details on definition of a "collector vehicle"



AA flares, big wheels...boned on count 2.

1. Tell them it came with the flares & tires - like they' know the diff.!! And one could make the argument that it IS per the Porsche M471 spec, as that's what AA's are modeled after! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

2. Find out the original number & create some or hunt them own ...... or maybe pay some old timer who made them at San Quentin back in the day to make you one!

Actually, it says that they are from the same type of vehicle (aiuto, truck or motorcycle) - NOT necessarily original to your 914, so maybe ANY blue plate set F&R will work. Underthetire said above that's what his Dad did with his 57 T-bird & just got a mtaching set at a swap meet.

[Tom_T]

I'm not tryin at all. Figure you'd know it after wrenching on the 914 all day. I can remember my dad saying how sore he was in the morning and said he must have slept wrong. As a kid i thought how can you mess up sleeping? Now I know. Some comedian is telling that as a joke now, dam it.

Well, I certainly keep the folks making the generic Advil in business, between working on the cars, house & my old Rugby knees! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tom_T]

o.k. i stand corrected. the white sunsets started in 85' but i know they ran into 87 as i had a -shall i admit- 87 tempo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) with them

Mike - I think you had it right 84-87 with Sunsets!

[kconway]

Actually, it says that they are from the same type of vehicle (aiuto, truck or motorcycle) - NOT necessarily original to your 914, so maybe ANY blue plate set F&R will work. Underthetire said above that's what his Dad did with his 57 T-bird & just got a mtaching set at a swap meet.

That is the YOM program though and it only runs through MY '69 on cars, '72 for commercial trucks. This is the program I hope they will eventually open up for '74 because you can find plates on ebay to use for this program.

BTW, I'm not trying to be a PIA. Just that this has been debated here in threads in the past...i'm still not on the winning side of this arguement! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[orange914]

Nope - changed the year before in 87, according to DMV site. We got our 88 Westy 4/16/88 with plain ole red block lettered "CALIFORNIA" at the top,as I'm sure your `Stang had.

something i've heard and makes sense is the dmv issues the plates as they have them-until they are out. i've seen several 1970's cars with black plates? hey ever seen custom personalized black plates? i've talked to an owner of one. i believe he said they started in 69'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Cairo94507]

As much as I would like to have period correct blue/yellow plates on my car, DMV is second only to the Post Office when it comes to employees who can barely remember their own name much less help people out (in my experience). It is like their people are recruited from a very special personality set....

[Tom_T]

Actually, it says that they are from the same type of vehicle (aiuto, truck or motorcycle) - NOT necessarily original to your 914, so maybe ANY blue plate set F&R will work. Underthetire said above that's what his Dad did with his 57 T-bird & just got a mtaching set at a swap meet.

That is the YOM program though and it only runs through MY '69 on cars, '72 for commercial trucks. This is the program I hope they will eventually open up for '74 because you can find plates on ebay to use for this program.

BTW, I'm not trying to be a PIA. Just that this has been debated here in threads in the past...i'm still not on the winning side of this arguement! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

UPDATE - Kev & All - I stand corrected on this program - it says you must meet ALL 4 bullets, so if you don't have your 914's actual original plates, then you're SOL! May be worth searching around for them, unless you're sure that they were turned in or destroyed.

ALL - I'll leave the rest of this post up for those who still have both of their original plates (like myself), & for the other info relative to DMV offices, & as to getting "any set" of period correct plates for the YOM program.


Kev, it's the 4th bullet from the Collector plates reassignment program which you pasted above, & I've copied below with the section title & highlighted to area below:

<snipped from DMV document - with emphasis added>
Reassignment of Old Plates to a Collector Vehicle
New Policy
Old California plates (regular series) may be re-assigned to a collector vehicle, even if the vehicle has a database record under a different license plate, when all of the following conditions are met:
•
Evidence is submitted to show that the old plates were once registered (assigned) to the collector vehicle in California (see new requirements below).
•
The old plate number is not on record or reserved as a special interest plate in the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) database.
•
The old plate’s combination of letters and numbers do not carry any connotations offensive to good taste and decency.
•
The owner (collector) has both the front and rear old plates for an automobile or commercial vehicle or the single old plate for a motorcycle or trailer.
<end snip>

UPDATE - Note that while this is confusing wording on bullet 4 for plates from "...an automoblie", upon further reading it again, I see that it says you must meet all 4 bullets, so it implies that they must be from your car originally - not another set.

Note that it says F&R plates "...for an automobile" - NOT from the vehicle, which argues for any set of period correct plates. Am I correct in this interpretation - who knows for sure until you ask!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Underthetire's Dad used the YOM procedure IIRC, but the use of another "non-specific to the vehicle" period correct plate(s) would be similar under the above - as I read this, which covers all collectible vehicles of any MY (so long as they meet their definition which you's also posted above).

Most of our 914's meet the definition, & IMHO even your & other 914s which are modified within the range of factory specifications/options vehicles would arguably meet their definition as "...Collector Vehicle – is a special interest vehicle of any age which is unaltered from the manufacturer's original specifications."

As for bigger tires & wheels - I doubt that they would care if vehicle "X" has the exact as originally delivered tires/wheels on it, let alone know what was on them!

As I suggested, you could make the case for - including documentation here & from Jeff Bowlsby's website - that yours is an M471 Option Spec. example, as restored to present condition to you. If the unaltered killer were taken to the extreme - as some attorneys try to do with stuff in courts - someone could be wrongfully rejected for having a repro sheet metal rust repair! Is that a correct interpretation? - NO! .... Could a DMV employee try to reject on that basis? - Of course, they just all don't care!!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I became curious about this, when another topic like this on here had someone post that they'd successfully done so by going to a 2nd DMV office (after an initial rejection at the 1st) & successfully argued a collector car point to keep his original blue plates just last year. IIRC, he even had to take his 914 in for an inspection. I believe that this new/updated plate reassignment policy is why they eventually approved it!

Different DMV offices have varying reputations for helpfulness or difficulty when dealing with the public. In our area Santa Ana is supposed to be one of the worst (& maybe Costa Mesa?), whereas Fullerton is supposed to be one of the better. We found this out after a couple of BS runarounds & an unwarranted (& not according to VC) "immediate failure" on a driving test, with our 2 kids a few years back at Santa Ana! It also varies from person to person (employee), time of day, type of day they're having (e.g.: let someone go ahead of you for the frowning employee & wait for the smiling friendly one at the counter stations).

Of course when you go there, if you use the line of reasoning which you're using here, you'll just help give them an excuse which they'd be more than happy to take up in order to avoid doing any extra work & not having to think for themselves! They're there at DMV to put in their time, collect a paycheck & hopefully last long enough to collect that generous state public employees pension which we're all paying for, and so will avoid any work or controversy or even having to "think" about something like the plague!!

Instead - you need to go in with all the rules, documentation, back-up & maybe even pix of factory M471 cars - & do EVERYTHING you possibly can for them - and it may take going to more than one person, office &/or submittal. If you're happy with the current white plates, then don't bother & avoid the hassle! If not, then go in well prepared, be persistent by going to several places/people at DMV if necessary, etc.

What more can I say!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ... it's now up to you to make a run at DMV .... or not! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Tom_T]

As much as I would like to have period correct blue/yellow plates on my car, DMV is second only to the Post Office when it comes to employees who can barely remember their own name much less help people out (in my experience). It is like their people are recruited from a very special personality set....

It's called the Civil Service Exam Michael!!

Michael - with yours being a 71 6 & last year factory officially imported them to the USA to boot - I can't think of a better collector example to do this with on the plate reassignment avenue!

Find your 914-6's old Blues or buy a matching set at a swap meet & give it a try! It may take more than one try with various employees at different offices, but you're no worse off if they were denied ultimately.

But if you succeed - then you'll have your own "Blue Plate Special"! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tom_T]

Nope - changed the year before in 87, according to DMV site. We got our 88 Westy 4/16/88 with plain ole red block lettered "CALIFORNIA" at the top,as I'm sure your `Stang had.

something i've heard and makes sense is the dmv issues the plates as they have them-until they are out. i've seen several 1970's cars with black plates? hey ever seen custom personalized black plates? i've talked to an owner of one. i believe he said they started in 69'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Mike - according to this link, the personalized plates didn't start until 1972 - but then, the DMV website was done with their employees!
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/about/profile/milestones.htm

However, I've heard that before that some folks "who knew somebody" could convince (or bribe?) somebody to assign certain characters to black plates. IIRC State Sen. Carpenter had one on his 56/57 T-Bird back in the day, but you'll recall he left office in disgrace for various malfeasance issues in office! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

According to this link, the white Sunset plates started in `82, & both Blues & Blackies were issued in 1970:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/plates/licenseplthistory.htm
I think it's always been state policy to use up the rest of the stock when new colors/series were issued, except when they went to the Month + Year renewal stickers on the Blackies & wnated the Yellows back.

More Trivia - according to this one, Cities & Counties issued plates 1901-05, then the Secretary of State took over....
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/about/profile/history.htm

Hey Mike - why no 914 on your bottom signature anymore? Did Kenny mash another one!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)
Oh wait - now I see it! This scroll down sig box is a pain when you have to scroll but forget to do so, but it saves space. Sorry Kenny!

[Tom_T]

OK - for those who have not linked to this document on the DMV website, here's the cut-n-paste full text for the DMV's new & updated policies on their Original Pate Reassignment program, which applies to all 70-76 MY 914s (& other collector cars). IIRC - this one only came out in Nov. or Dec. 2009 (or at the earliest, it was Aug.09) - so it is relatively new news on a new policy at DMV. Again - the original PDF is at this link: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vehindustry/vin_memo...009/09vin20.pdf

Of note, at the top paragraph on page 3 they unequivocally state that previous policy was to reassign the old original plates to a vehicle if both the vehicle & plates were no longer on their database records - and that is still the case under this new & expanded policy (see emphasis in bold which I added at pg. 3 top).

So one must ask, if that was the DMV policy all along - then why the "F" have they hassled folks for so long over keeping their original plates on their cars when putting them back on the road!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) . . . . ...... Laziness &/or ignorance is/are the likely answer! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

PAGE 1:
Vehicle Industry News VIN 2009–20

Reassignment of Old Plates to a Collector Vehicle

New Policy
Old California plates (regular series) may be re-assigned to a collector vehicle, even if the vehicle has a database record under a different license plate, when all of the following conditions are met:

• Evidence is submitted to show that the old plates were once registered (assigned) to the collector vehicle in California (see new requirements below).

• The old plate number is not on record or reserved as a special interest plate in the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) database.

• The old plate’s combination of letters and numbers do not carry any connotations offensive to good taste and decency.

• The owner (collector) has both the front and rear old plates for an automobile or commercial vehicle or the single old plate for a motorcycle or trailer.

New Requirements
To put old, regular series California plates back on the collector vehicle, the original or a photocopy of the California title, registration card, or renewal notice must be submitted to the DMV to show that the plates were once registered to the vehicle (a copy may only be used as proof the plates were registered to the vehicle; a copy cannot be used for any other DMV purpose).

Procedures
To have the old, regular series California plates re-assigned to the vehicle submit:

• The proof that the plates were once registered to the vehicle (as noted above).

• A Statement of Facts (REG 256) from the vehicle owner stating in section G and signing in section H to certify:
— The old plate number to be assigned to the vehicle.
— The old plates will not be affixed to the vehicle unless DMV sends approval.
— The plates currently on the vehicle will be surrendered to DMV if the old plates are approved.
— Their daytime telephone number so the DMV can call if they have a question.

• There is no fee to reregister the old plates; however, any other fees or renewal fees due within the next 75 days must be paid.

• All the required original documents for the application (transfer, nonresident, etc.) in addition to old plate application requirements.

VR 2009-21 © 2009 State of California, Department of Motor Vehicles. All rights reserved. Visit our Web Site—dmv.ca.gov


PAGE 2:
VIN 2009-20 Page 2

NOTE: A collector who submitted all of their evidence that the plate was registered to the vehicle in a prior attempt to have the old plates assigned, and was denied by the DMV because the collector vehicle had a database record under another license plate number, may explain the previous denial reason and the reason they have no old plate evidence on the REG 256 in section G. The application will be reviewed and reconsidered by DMV headquarters.

Customer Information
Please inform your customer that processing may take approximately 60 days, and if the request to reassign the old plates is:

• Approved – a new registration card with the old plate number showing as the license plate number and new set of month/year stickers will be mailed to the registered owner. The owner must put the old plates with the month/year stickers on the vehicle and surrender the plates removed from the vehicle to DMV.

• Denied – a denial letter will be sent and the customer must retain their current plates on the vehicle, or if issued new regular series plates must put them on the vehicle.

NOTE: Due to database limitations, a plate that still has a record cannot be reregistered. Therefore, customers returning to California after registering their vehicle out-of-state cannot have their old California plates reassigned to their collector vehicle, if there is still an existing record of the old plate (unless the plate qualifies under the Year of Manufacture program).

Definitions

Collector Vehicle – is a special interest vehicle of any age which is unaltered from the manufacturer's original specifications. Because of the vehicle's significance, such as an out-of-production vehicle, or a model of less than 2,000 vehicles sold in California in any model year, it is being collected, preserved, restored, or maintained by a collector or hobbyist for purposes of restoration, maintenance, or exhibition.

Collector – is the owner of one or more historical or special interest vehicles who collects, purchases, acquires, trades, or disposes of such vehicle(s), or parts thereof, for his or her own use, in order to preserve, restore, and maintain such vehicle(s) for hobby or historical purposes.


PAGE 3:
VIN 2009-20 Page 3

Background
DMV previously only reassigned old, regular series California plates if both the collector vehicle and the old plate were not on the database record. Old, regular series plates (without a database record) may now be reregistered to a collector vehicle, whether the vehicle has a database record or not. Previously only an original California title or registration card was allowed as evidence that the plate was once registered to the vehicle.

Reference
California Vehicle Code sections
§5051, 5200 California Code of Regulations - Title 13, Article 3.1, section 170.00

Distribution
Notification that this memo is available online, at
www.dmv.ca.gov under Publications was made, via the E-mail Alert Service in August 2009.

Contact
Call the DMV Customer Communications Section, at (916) 657-6560 for further clarification of this memo. Upon request, this document can be produced in Braille or large print.

JEAN SHIOMOTO, Deputy Director Communication Programs Division
End of Document////

If there are any questions on DMV's details, procedures & interpretations on this, then I'd suggest that you call the DMV Headquarters number above.
..... Oh boy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) a real live person number in Sacra-tomato none-the-less! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

[orange914]

Mike - according to this link, the personalized plates didn't start until 1972 - but then, the DMV website was done with their employees! However, I've heard that before that some folks "who knew somebody" could convince (or bribe?) somebody to assign certain characters to black plates. IIRC

According to this link, the white Sunset plates started in `82

Hey Mike - why no 914 on your bottom signature anymore? Did Kenny mash another one!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)
Oh wait - now I see it! This scroll down sig box is a pain when you have to scroll but forget to do so, but it saves space. Sorry Kenny!

the example of personalized black plates i've got was a on a customers car i worked on alot. he was a ham radio operator fanatic. it had his call numbers. the additional weird thing was he had keep the plates and transferred them to his newer vehicle. makes me second guess my sanity. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

how could the sunsets be issued in 82 when the white plates weren't out until 87'?note to self: it just dawned on me as i'm writing this in 82 i got personalized plates for my 442 in white "2hypr4u". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) i remember it was an option to get white so i did.

no but kenny has put a civic on it's roof since (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

[Tom_T]

Mike - according to this link, the personalized plates didn't start until 1972 - but then, the DMV website was done with their employees! However, I've heard that before that some folks "who knew somebody" could convince (or bribe?) somebody to assign certain characters to black plates. IIRC

According to this link, the white Sunset plates started in `82

Hey Mike - why no 914 on your bottom signature anymore? Did Kenny mash another one!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)
Oh wait - now I see it! This scroll down sig box is a pain when you have to scroll but forget to do so, but it saves space. Sorry Kenny!

the example of personalized black plates i've got was a on a customers car i worked on alot. he was a ham radio operator fanatic. it had his call numbers. the additional weird thing was he had keep the plates and transferred them to his newer vehicle. makes me second guess my sanity. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

how could the sunsets be issued in 82 when the white plates weren't out until 87'?note to self: it just dawned on me as i'm writing this in 82 i got personalized plates for my 442 in white "2hypr4u". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) i remember it was an option to get white so i did.

no but kenny has put a civic on it's roof since (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)

Were his ham call numbers all numeric then - or alpha-numeric? IIRC - the call sign I got for the CB way back when were both. However, I don't recall ever seeing a black plate with anything but numbers on them. He must've had some pull somewhere, or else there was another personalized plate program which the DMV historians forgot about!?

Geez Mike - get a load of that hair! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I used to have a mop like that too, back in the day! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

My Grandfather would get a new 442 every year until he retired, then he got a Delta 88 until he passed. His the same year as yours was white with red-orange stripes on the hood & trunk. He'd scream that sucker around the country roads outside of Pittsburgh PA (Allegheny Mountains doncha know!?) - even in his late 60's!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

That's where my Mom & I got our Lead Foots! We had a 67 Chevy pick-up with a 327-2Bbl. like the black one in the background, with a cab-over camper shell as a family trip & around town vehicle (replaced the Greenbrier van) that the two of us got the most out of with our "heavy feet"! A few other classics in the background too!

I guess ole Kenny just hasn't figured out yet that the shiny side is supposed to stay up! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)