Real Creamsicle - questions on originality, keeping it 100% original Options

[Rmvr53]

I've a question for the esteemed panel.
I have a real creamsicle (ok its my daughters) that was sitting too close to the house when it burned down. Most rubber/plastic items melted and I have replaced the lenses etc but I am at a quandry on the rubber nerfs on the front bumper. I am temped to remove them and repaint the bumper and leave them off since the lines of the car are much cleaner without them. As for the rubber top cap I have a fiberglass replica (Carl Rudolph) I'm installing in place of the rubber top.

Thoughts?

Bill F

[JeffBowlsby]

Id keep it original in every way Bill. But leaving them off is not a big deal if you prefer that, just dont weld up the holes so the next guy can reinstall them if he wants.

Is your car on the 914 LE Registry? If not can you contact me so that it can be included? Its here: http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/

Thanks.

[Rmvr53]

Id keep it original in every way Bill. But leaving them off is not a big deal if you prefer that, just dont weld up the holes so the next guy can reinstall them if he wants.

Is your car on the 914 LE Registry? If not can you contact me so that it can be included? Its here: http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/

Thanks.

yes it is - 14490 - (photo before the fire) still a numbers matching car. I went thru the engine about 10 years ago when it dropped a seat. Ultimately saved one head and the case. The under dash ac unit and console were in the garage so those have to be replaced someday. Ok, I'm not real keen on replacing the ac, but I'd like to find a correct console since the after-market ones I've found have the gauges in a nice neat stack and the original was offset center gauge. Although the offset may have been due to the ac so I'm not sure what is correct or not

Bill

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

I of course totally agree with Jeff, don't waste your money on cheap imitations or destroying the originality of this very valuable and rare car.

The offset is correct for the vpc air conditioning system.

Id keep it original in every way Bill. But leaving them off is not a big deal if you prefer that, just dont weld up the holes so the next guy can reinstall them if he wants.

Is your car on the 914 LE Registry? If not can you contact me so that it can be included? Its here: http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/

Thanks.

yes it is - 14490 - (photo before the fire) still a numbers matching car. I went thru the engine about 10 years ago when it dropped a seat. Ultimately saved one head and the case. The under dash ac unit and console were in the garage so those have to be replaced someday. Ok, I'm not real keen on replacing the ac, but I'd like to find a correct console since the after-market ones I've found have the gauges in a nice neat stack and the original was offset center gauge. Although the offset may have been due to the ac so I'm not sure what is correct or not

Bill

[Rmvr53]

I of course totally agree with Jeff, don't waste your money on cheap imitations or destroying the originality of this very valuable and rare car.

The offset is correct for the vpc air conditioning system.

Id keep it original in every way Bill. But leaving them off is not a big deal if you prefer that, just dont weld up the holes so the next guy can reinstall them if he wants.

Is your car on the 914 LE Registry? If not can you contact me so that it can be included? Its here: http://bowlsby.net/914/CanAm/

Thanks.

yes it is - 14490 - (photo before the fire) still a numbers matching car. I went thru the engine about 10 years ago when it dropped a seat. Ultimately saved one head and the case. The under dash ac unit and console were in the garage so those have to be replaced someday. Ok, I'm not real keen on replacing the ac, but I'd like to find a correct console since the after-market ones I've found have the gauges in a nice neat stack and the original was offset center gauge. Although the offset may have been due to the ac so I'm not sure what is correct or not

Bill

So...you think I should put the ac back in as well or since it was probably a dealer installed option not worry about it?..I'm assuming none of the cars came from the factory with ac...

Bill

[davep]

No, there was no such thing as factory air for the 914, just dealer installed. Now if you have a ton of holes to fill, you might consider keeping the AC.
If you do, you may need a few more stealth ponies in the engine bay.

[Rmvr53]

No, there was no such thing as factory air for the 914, just dealer installed. Now if you have a ton of holes to fill, you might consider keeping the AC.
If you do, you may need a few more stealth ponies in the engine bay.

Thats what I thought I had read. I haven't seen a bunch of holes to mess with so the interior is fine. I am leaving the condenser under the spare tire just because THAT would leave a bunch of holes! Back when I built the engine, I removed the AC compressor, made new tin to fill the gap and installed it such that it doesn't really look like something is missing. Ponies?...to run the ac you need Clydsdales!!

Bill

[Tom_T]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with Jeff & George - keep it as Original, & it will be worth more to boot!

Mikey914 (Mark) under vendors on 914world sells som repro bumper tops F&R which look EXACTLY like OE - but are made with better non-porous rubber & SS innards that won't likel;y ever rust nor get tthos ugly "dimples". The OE stock ones were carbon steel with "not-always-so-closed-cell" polyurethane synthetic rubber, which allowed water to seep in & rust the mild steel inside causing those dimples & rusted studs, etc.

I saw in person one of his Repros on the Front (NLA in OE anymore anyway) & an OE on the rear of SoCalAndy's yellow 72 (see cars of the month here), & could NOT tell the difference. That convinced me not only to go with his repro front, but also for the rear for the better product reasons (over the OE one I'd already bought), for my early-73 914S/914-2.0 resto! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As for refitting the AC - AA offers a modern AC running on the new R134 Freon & the compressor only robs 1-2 HP (vs. 5-10 on older VPC or DPD dealer add-ons). If you keep the AC - ask George at AA if you can retro-fit his "new" system into the original dealer option under the under-tire evap cover & into VPC under dash console in your/daughter's LE to keep it looking as delivered from the dealer, but running more efficiently, with the "safe" Freon & less HP lost. I looked into this route for mine using a DPD set-up to still look period correct for CW reasons - because lack of AC in SoCal was a problem for me, but George & others here advised me not to add it, since mine was not that way from a dealer originally.

If you have the original bill of sale &/or other docs from the dealer showing the VPC, then a CW could either keep that update, or reinstall the original VPC stuff (keep that if you do the update), and it would still pass muster IIRC at PCA concours stuff.

If you need a pair of the NLA front tits (rubber bumper guards) - I ended up with 3 pairs in VG-Excl condition, of which I'll be putting the best 9.9 of 10 set on mine, but the other two are almost as good at say 9.2 & 9.5 - with the former having had the studs replaced on the backside, but cosmetically great on the front (visible) side. I also have that NIB OE rear bumper rubber topper if you need one of those & don't want to use the repro. Otherwise PM Mark under member Mikey914 here for the repro front &/or rear. I wouldn't use the FG one on an LE or nice 914 or resto at all.

PM or email me if you want any of those parts above.

[Pat Garvey]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with Jeff & George - keep it as Original, & it will be worth more to boot!

Mikey914 (Mark) under vendors on 914world sells som repro bumper tops F&R which look EXACTLY like OE - but are made with better non-porous rubber & SS innards that won't likel;y ever rust nor get tthos ugly "dimples". The OE stock ones were carbon steel with "not-always-so-closed-cell" polyurethane synthetic rubber, which allowed water to seep in & rust the mild steel inside causing those dimples & rusted studs, etc.

I saw in person one of his Repros on the Front (NLA in OE anymore anyway) & an OE on the rear of SoCalAndy's yellow 72 (see cars of the month here), & could NOT tell the difference. That convinced me not only to go with his repro front, but also for the rear for the better product reasons (over the OE one I'd already bought), for my early-73 914S/914-2.0 resto! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

As for refitting the AC - AA offers a modern AC running on the new R134 Freon & the compressor only robs 1-2 HP (vs. 5-10 on older VPC or DPD dealer add-ons). If you keep the AC - ask George at AA if you can retro-fit his "new" system into the original dealer option under the under-tire evap cover & into VPC under dash console in your/daughter's LE to keep it looking as delivered from the dealer, but running more efficiently, with the "safe" Freon & less HP lost. I looked into this route for mine using a DPD set-up to still look period correct for CW reasons - because lack of AC in SoCal was a problem for me, but George & others here advised me not to add it, since mine was not that way from a dealer originally.

If you have the original bill of sale &/or other docs from the dealer showing the VPC, then a CW could either keep that update, or reinstall the original VPC stuff (keep that if you do the update), and it would still pass muster IIRC at PCA concours stuff.

If you need a pair of the NLA front tits (rubber bumper guards) - I ended up with 3 pairs in VG-Excl condition, of which I'll be putting the best 9.9 of 10 set on mine, but the other two are almost as good at say 9.2 & 9.5 - with the former having had the studs replaced on the backside, but cosmetically great on the front (visible) side. I also have that NIB OE rear bumper rubber topper if you need one of those & don't want to use the repro. Otherwise PM Mark under member Mikey914 here for the repro front &/or rear. I wouldn't use the FG one on an LE or nice 914 or resto at all.

PM or email me if you want any of those parts above.

I will vouch for Mikey914's F & R bumper tops. I have one of each, awaiting my next 914 (not Fritz). The spec's and quality are dead nuts right on! You'd also be hard pressed (if possible) to detect them from the real. Have a couple of his other parts too & they are of the same quality. Mark is doing a really significant service to this genre.
Pat

[Michael N]

Deleted as not CW PC (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) ." far from original & does not belong here!"

[Rmvr53]

On my wife's bumblebee I went with no tits. I painted some plastic plugs to match then plugged the holes. I have clean bumper tits to install if ever desired but prefer the clean look with out them. Another benefit of not having them installed is no rust between the tits and bumper.

yes it looks nice...and since mine are melted, I think its a better option!

Bill

[Tom_T]

On my wife's bumblebee I went with no tits. I painted some plastic plugs to match then plugged the holes. I have clean bumper tits to install if ever desired but prefer the clean look with out them. Another benefit of not having them installed is no rust between the tits and bumper.

I like tits myself Mike! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
... i just prefer the original look, but what was that old joke about "...as useful as teats on a hog's A**..." !!??

GREAT personalized CA Blue Plates for that Bee too!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
With the Sept renewal sticker- I'm guessing it was first sold 9/73 - an early LE ??

[Michael N]

Deleted as not CW PC. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) " far from original & does not belong here!"

[Tom_T]

GREAT personalized CA Blue Plates for that Bee too!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
With the Sept renewal sticker- I'm guessing it was first sold 9/73 - an early LE ??

Original build in Feb 1974. I know the car was in California in 1976 from a gas receipt in the car from a 76 station in Mt View CA. I don't believe Phillip Wong's credit card # will work any more. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Mike - is that your L80E next to the wife's Bee? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

If you look on your early CA Reg cards for the car (the heavier paperboard ones with the pinkish or reddish background areas) up to the early 80's or so, the "date first sold" box will give you the first sale date in CA (my current reg cards on our other cards show 00/00/YR without dates but the 914 goes back to 75 when I got it & shows full dates up to 80's).

If you don't have them, but it's still registered in CA (looks to me it is if those are still its plates), then you can go online to the CA DMV website & look for their pdf Information Request Form & request copies of their reg. records - perhaps back to 74. AAA may be able to get as much as they have on the computer database, but only the info request will get into microfilm records - if any are still available.

With a 2/74 build date on the VIN sticker - it could have either:
1.) been first sold new in Spring 74 with a standard blue plate & then upgraded to the personalized blue plates that are on there now at a later date & the Sept renewal reassigned per that date, or
2.) sold new outside of CA & then brought in later for those plates in 9/74 up to any Sept. before the switch to white plates in 84+/- , or
3.) it could've sat on a dealers lot until Sept. 74.

Does the chassis no. on the Karmann plate track when deciphered for week-month-day? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Michael N]

Deleted as not CW PC. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) " far from original & does not belong here!"

[Tom_T]

Mike - is that your L80E next to the wife's Bee? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Yes. That is my baby.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) .... & a 6 to boot! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

My early 73 2L was originally L80E & will be again with my resto, along with the original Beige interior, AG & PG options sets! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ... maybe one day I'll get a /6 too!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Pat Garvey]

Mike - is that your L80E next to the wife's Bee? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Yes. That is my baby.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) .... & a 6 to boot! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

My early 73 2L was originally L80E & will be again with my resto, along with the original Beige interior, AG & PG options sets! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ... maybe one day I'll get a /6 too!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

So, the asshat has to strike agin!
I like your 914, but it is far from original & does not belong here!
Further posts will be barred. Sorry, just doing my job.
Pat

[Tom_T]

So, the asshat has to strike agin!
I like your 914, but it is far from original & does not belong here!
Further posts will be barred. Sorry, just doing my job.
Pat

Hey Pat - Bill F who started this topic above was actually asking for CW help on originality of what to do with his/daughter's LE Cremesicle after fire damage. Our initial posts were in line with keeping it original & undoing some FG bumper toppers to do so.

Bill - for the record - I would strongly suggest that you keep your/daughter's LE as original, & folks on here can help you source parts as needed for it, as well as the ones which I offered FS. The LE's are just so rare, that it's value will be highest if maintained in factory original condition.

Pat - IMHO - rather just cutting off this guys request for help due to various non-originality opinions of other responders - I really think it would be far more helpful for you to respond to him as an originality expert in a supportive way, on keeping the 74 MY LE's OE F&R rubber tits & either OEM or Mikey914's repro rubber toppers F&R on those bumpers, rather than some of the other non-original suggestions here.

As opposed to the Bumblebee's approach above, which while it's a good looking 914 - it is not as original. Moreover, he did state he has the F&R tits for somebody to put back on & only used color matched caps to plugs the holes - rather than as some do & change out to backdated 70-72 bumpers, which I would classify a not easily reversible change (unless those parts a likewise saved). And then his L80E /6 is pretty close to original though - even still has the snowplow rear valence! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Be careful Pat on how hard you come down on folks, lest I let it out of the bag about those not yet available in 72 MY Mahles you want for Fritz! ... do you still have that shorty 73-76 rear valence on him!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[MDG]

Pat . . . . I really think it would be far more helpful for you to respond to him as an originality expert in a supportive way . . .

He did.

Pat responded to the OP's question and weighed in on the quality of Mark's stuff (I agree 100% BTW - all of his products are top notch) I believe what Pat is referring to here is the current tendency by some to veer off the original posters question and turn the thread around.

I too think Mike's LE and six are fantastic looking cars. I'll take them both please (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Really though, the photos of them; and your ensuing discussion on those photos; and references to your upcoming resto; and what you plan on doing . . . have nothing to do with Bill's original point and are basically a hijack of Bill's thread.

And Bill, with a car as rare as yours stay as original as you possibly can my friend.

m.

[Tom_T]

Pat . . . . I really think it would be far more helpful for you to respond to him as an originality expert in a supportive way . . .

He did.

Pat responded to the OP's question and weighed in on the quality of Mark's stuff (I agree 100% BTW - all of his products are top notch) I believe what Pat is referring to here is the current tendency by some to veer off the original posters question and turn the thread around.

I too think Mike's LE and six are fantastic looking cars. I'll take them both please (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Really though, the photos of them; and your ensuing discussion on those photos; and references to your upcoming resto; and what you plan on doing . . . have nothing to do with Bill's original point and are basically a hijack of Bill's thread.

And Bill, with a car as rare as yours stay as original as you possibly can my friend.

m.

Point taken - too easy to get sidetracking talking about what we love! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)