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> Need my V8 Guru's, fill and expansion tanks
Howard
post Mar 29 2004, 09:29 PM
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Car was in at Otto's last few days. He did all the 'Porsche' stuff and called in Rod Simpson to take a look at conversion. Rod said it was fine, but should have an updated radiator to run cooler. Since the current one does leak a bit, I may go ahead and have him change out.
He also said that cooling setup is wrong, since fill tank and expansion tank should be near the radiator, not the engine. Seems to me that as long as both are high in the system, it doesn't really matter. Once pressurized, even the height shouldn't matter.
Opinions? How is your's set up?
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boxstr
post Mar 29 2004, 09:42 PM
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Howard I have read posts from other V8 owners who has had cooling problems with the RSE radiator setup, and changed to a RH setup, problem soved and cool running. I have no personal experience with either RES, or RH radiator setup.
My filler is at the motor and the expansion tank is in the place where the battery used to be until it was moved to the front trunk.
The majority of expansion tanks that I have seen have been in the engine bay, I have seen a couple in the front trunk.
CCLINRUNNINGCOOL
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Brad Roberts
post Mar 29 2004, 09:50 PM
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Rod tells everyone this. With the RH setup I run a single generic plastic puke tank that works fine. Rod is the only person who runs both pieces with his setup. I beleive his radiator works fine if you live in a mild climate area and rarely see traffic. I dont personally feel that it works very well for a daily commuter.

Something else I have noticed while "tracking" a V8 914: Oil temps went through the roof. The water temps hovered around 200-210 with the RH setup, but the oil temps where out of control. I had to back out of the car for a few laps to let things chill out. This was in a mild 400hp GM crate engine with aluminum fast burn heads and a Victor junior intake setup/Holley 750 DP.


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campbellcj
post Mar 29 2004, 10:05 PM
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Do (most) V8 conversion cars run oil and/or trans coolers?

Howard - I meant to go check out your car while it was at the shop. (My office is 2 miles from there.) Been crazy busy lately, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
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Howard
post Mar 29 2004, 10:21 PM
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As always, invaluable info.
Craig, what radiator are you using? And where are my shox? send them pony express? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) Did you find that driver side front grille? Gimme, gimme, gimmie!

Brad, Will install oil temp gauge and let you know. It does seem funny not to have one.
And a 'mild' 400hp crate motor in a 2300# car? I scare the shit out of myself with the 95hp 2.0 at the track. Youse guys have ballz! Taking the 8 to Willow April 17/18 for the Shelby club open track event. Will bring extra shorts and try the doppelganger... Beat 'em with a Chev and a Porsche!

Chris, I only live 2 miles from you, too.
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Brad Roberts
post Mar 29 2004, 10:26 PM
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Howard,

The V8 914 crowd will be REAL happy to see the next V8 conversion car coming through this shop:

1. IMSA wide body (14in rears/12 fronts) 935 slant nose open cockpit.
2. 930 4 speed
3. Monster brakes
4. Kenny Duttweiler 1200hp twin turbo all aluminum small block.
5. Balls


Should be scary.


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Howard
post Mar 29 2004, 10:33 PM
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Brad, he really should have my whale tail.

1200hp / 2400# sounds like a perfectly reasonable street car.
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Brad Roberts
post Mar 29 2004, 10:36 PM
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It already has a wing. The roller weighs 1400lbs, so it will end up under 2k lbs.

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Andyrew
post Mar 29 2004, 10:49 PM
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Under 2k.. 1200hp.. umm 1.6 hp to weight ratio?

I dont think we have that kind of smilie yet...

(IMG:http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/eek3.gif)

is the closest one that comes to mind...
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neo914-6
post Mar 30 2004, 12:23 AM
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Howard,
Brad and Chung installed the RH rad in my car and can say it works well. I did overheat going up the hills recently and Scott of Renegade attributed it to the RS water pump. I run the Dedenbear inlet on top of the motor but it limits my air filter choices so I plan to convert to RH. Here's some pics...
Felix


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neo914-6
post Mar 30 2004, 12:24 AM
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Someone's front mounted expansion (RH also)...


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BIGKAT_83
post Mar 30 2004, 03:00 AM
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QUOTE(Howard @ Mar 29 2004, 07:29 PM)
He also said that cooling setup is wrong, since fill tank and expansion tank should be near the radiator, not the engine. Seems to me that as long as both are high in the system, it doesn't really matter. Once pressurized, even the height shouldn't matter.
Opinions? How is your's set up?

Howard what Rod Simpson said about the expansion tank mounted in the front is correct.
If you look at the Black car in the above post you can see the tank mounted. It is plumbed correct with a small water line from the high pressure side of the radiator going to the top of the expansion tank. Then a larger line from bottom of the expansion tank to the low pressure side.

I posted a reprint of a article about cooling in a thread a couple of days ago. In that article this is the way they were talking about running the lines.

IMHO I don't see how you could ever get all of the air out of the system by filling water at the high pressure side like the RHS system does.

Bob
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BIGKAT_83
post Mar 30 2004, 03:09 AM
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QUOTE(Jaiderenegadesimpson V8 914 @ Mar 29 2004, 10:23 PM)
Howard,
Brad and Chung installed the RH rad in my car and can say it works well. I did overheat going up the hills recently and Scott of Renegade attributed it to the RS water pump. I run the Dedenbear inlet on top of the motor but it limits my air filter choices so I plan to convert to RH. Here's some pics...
Felix

Felix
Don't both the RS and RHS pumps run the same MOPAR impeeler and have the size inlets and outlets. I bet they were both cast at the same place.

Bob
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Brad Roberts
post Mar 30 2004, 03:51 AM
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The pic above is a old RH radiator setup. The one they have sold for the last 3-4 years has a shroud and more efficient/larger fans.

I know the system holds a lot of water, but I have never seen a car "puke" more than the generic plastic tank can hold. I would think the expansion tank wouldnt be needed if you had a properly sized "puke" tank in the system.

I have 3 different conversion cars in the shop right now with 3 different cooling systems. 1. RH 2. RS 3. EARLY RH. All of them hover around 200deg even if I am beating on them, but the only one that seems to keep things in check during extended periods of traffic lights/slow moving traffic is the latest RH setup.

I do agree that Felix needs to lose the filler he has in place currently.


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Brett W
post Mar 30 2004, 09:35 AM
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Are you guys running the rubber coolant hose from the front to the rear of the car? If so why not chuck that shit and run some 1 5/8 or so aluminum or stainless tubing for the majoritiy of the run to the front of the car.

Is the RH radiator a three or four core unit? Why not just find a junk hood and cut the exit for the air in the hood? would this not solve the cooling issues?
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rick 918-S
post Mar 30 2004, 06:41 PM
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I'm running Electrical conduit as the water transfer system. It's galvanized, cheap, and easy to weld mounting tabs on. It has nice mandrel bent corners. Doesn't sag Under the car, and sheds heat to aid with cooling. VW uses something simaler under the water cooled boxer Van. Why reinvent the wheel.
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Mueller
post Mar 30 2004, 06:58 PM
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QUOTE
VW uses something simaler under the water cooled boxer Van. Why reinvent the wheel.


and the van sits 6" higher or more than a 914.....less chance of hitting the lines on a speed bump.....ovalized tubing would be better.....you might want to add a few skid plates under the car to be on the safe side........ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

Brett, some people have run the lines inside the car (great in the winter, sucks in the summer)....The car that Felix has, had copper tubing running thru the rocker panels....his car now has the regular green stripe hose running under the car...........
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datapace
post Mar 30 2004, 07:21 PM
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Rich,

Some food for thought. I thought that was a good (and cheap) solution, too. FYI, they don't galvanize the INSIDE :-D Ask me how I know!

I noticed this as I was ripping out the old stuff to use gates green stripe. I still like the metal idea, much better heat transfer, but there are some wicked curves to really do it right.

-datapace
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Brad Roberts
post Mar 30 2004, 11:14 PM
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I like the rubber. It bounces back when you hit it with something instead of "crimping" the line and frying your engine before you figure out what the problem is.

Rubber lines: 100$ and 1 hour install.

How long does it take to install hard lines ??



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rick 918-S
post Mar 30 2004, 11:30 PM
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Hey nice rack! -Celette
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QUOTE(datapace @ Mar 30 2004, 05:21 PM)
Rich,

Some food for thought. I thought that was a good (and cheap) solution, too. FYI, they don't galvanize the INSIDE :-D Ask me how I know!

I noticed this as I was ripping out the old stuff to use gates green stripe. I still like the metal idea, much better heat transfer, but there are some wicked curves to really do it right.

-datapace

I bet I could coat the inside with gas tank liner. Still a cheap solution.
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