V8 Radiator Sources Options

[Bruce Hinds]

Ok V8 guys, what type of radiators did you use? I know Renegade sells a kit that works, but $1100 is a budget buster. Already have the dual fans to use, so don't need them.

Looking for ideas/suggestions/sources.
Thanks.

Hey Kyracedog,

I've been running my 914 V8 on-track for some 7 years. It has a 500 HP 383
and I've been running a SUMMIT RACING $160 aluminum Camaro radiator
(SUM-380331). It is 31" x 19" and with a little hammer "massaging" fits nicely between the head light boxes.

It is a single pass radiator and according to my engineer bud, gives MAX efficiency by presenting the Highest Delta-T to the airflow (the hotter the water presented to cooling air, the more efficient the heat exchange). With a dual pass, the 1st pass is efficient, but the 2nd pass is cooler and less efficient.

I'm afraid I know Scottie all too well at Renegade and there is NO engineering talent there. They don't know how to do "research." They don't make any of their parts for the conversion kits and when my engineer bud visited the Las Vegas shop, found nothing but an open bay and hand tools. Their work is "back yard mechanic", at best. Scottie bought the company from the original founder and is just "turning the crank" to make $$.....IMO. Scottie's "profession" before Renegade was as a Disc Jockey.

As a rule of thumb, if your conversion is modest power, 300 - 400 HP, you can probably be OK with venting the radiator air through the fender wells as most do.
However, if you are going 400HP+or live in a hot climate (I run at Willow Springs in the HOT upper desert of SOCAL), I found out the "hard-way" (or would you call that "Research?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) that venting out through the hood is THE ANSWER. I posted my finding on the paddock forum a few months back.
Regardless, be sure to CONTROL the airflow with ducting to assure ALL goes through the radiator.

I my experiences can help you,
Terry

I think I understand the part about the Delta T of the air moving past the fins and cooling tubes (or is that the Delta T of the coolant). But how does it (the cooling effect) become less efficient when the coolant essentially passes though the radiator twice... say if the single pass and the double pass radiators are both 2 core? Does it have to do with the rate of change (Delta T). Also, how does the frontal area of the raiator come into play? I read that to get that number, you multiply the CID of the engine by 1.5.... so a 350 would need about 525 sq. inches of frontal radiator area.

It does sound like that if a single pass cross-flow radiator works for your 500hp setup, it should work for my 250hp setup. What type of fans are you using?

Double pass only means that it goes from side to side in 1/2 the radiator and then goes side to side through the other half. Thats why the have the inlet and outlet on the same sides. The tanks on each side have a wall in the middle ofo them.
Delta-T refers to the amount of temperature change.

[skipnsb]

"As a rule of thumb, if your conversion is modest power, 300 - 400 HP, you can probably be OK with venting the radiator air through the fender wells as most do.
However, if you are going 400HP+or live in a hot climate ...that venting out through the hood is THE ANSWER. "

I guess Ford agrees. There was a 2005? Ford GT40 at the local car show today. The hood vents started about 3 inches behind the fans, you could see the back side of the fans clearly from the outside.

[Bruce Hinds]

I've long thought about making a new hood to get the hot air out of the top, it has to work better, not sure I need it, but most all the production mid engine water cooled cars are made that way with the exception of the early panteras. So I went looking at panteras and found an amazing site that will interest all you fabricators. What a job this guy has done......
http://www.hemipanter.se/

[BRAVE_HELIOS]

Ok V8 guys, what type of radiators did you use? I know Renegade sells a kit that works, but $1100 is a budget buster. Already have the dual fans to use, so don't need them.

Looking for ideas/suggestions/sources.
Thanks.

Hey Kyracedog,

I've been running my 914 V8 on-track for some 7 years. It has a 500 HP 383
and I've been running a SUMMIT RACING $160 aluminum Camaro radiator
(SUM-380331). It is 31" x 19" and with a little hammer "massaging" fits nicely between the head light boxes.

It is a single pass radiator and according to my engineer bud, gives MAX efficiency by presenting the Highest Delta-T to the airflow (the hotter the water presented to cooling air, the more efficient the heat exchange). With a dual pass, the 1st pass is efficient, but the 2nd pass is cooler and less efficient.

I'm afraid I know Scottie all too well at Renegade and there is NO engineering talent there. They don't know how to do "research." They don't make any of their parts for the conversion kits and when my engineer bud visited the Las Vegas shop, found nothing but an open bay and hand tools. Their work is "back yard mechanic", at best. Scottie bought the company from the original founder and is just "turning the crank" to make $$.....IMO. Scottie's "profession" before Renegade was as a Disc Jockey.

As a rule of thumb, if your conversion is modest power, 300 - 400 HP, you can probably be OK with venting the radiator air through the fender wells as most do.
However, if you are going 400HP+or live in a hot climate (I run at Willow Springs in the HOT upper desert of SOCAL), I found out the "hard-way" (or would you call that "Research?" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) that venting out through the hood is THE ANSWER. I posted my finding on the paddock forum a few months back.
Regardless, be sure to CONTROL the airflow with ducting to assure ALL goes through the radiator.

I my experiences can help you,
Terry

So I finally decided to buy a 27.5" x 16" Griffin radiator... sans filler neck.

I started looking into the purchase of a fan and bought a 1994 Lincoln Mark VIII fan for $20.00! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) They say that this is one of the most powerful fans available, period! But now I'm confronted with the news that i must increase the capacity of my alternator to a cs130, 105 amp unit... minimum. I must also use hi amp relays and possibly, special hi capacity controllers. I guess these fans draw about 100 amps when they first kick in, then settle down to about 30 amps!

I now have a standard 55 amp alternator in place. I guess now would be as good a time as any to upgrade.

Anybody install one of these fans in your rig? I could sure use some really good wiring diagrams!

Thanks!

[Mike Bellis]

Electric motors make maximum torque at start up. Therefor they consume maximum amps at start up too. If you are concerned, use two 30 amp relays in paralelle. They will handle the current. any control can operate the relays.

[andys]

100 Amps sounded way too high, so I Googled it and found the following where the article claims that Mk VIII fan draws only 30 Amps (though it doesn't say anything about startup current, but I can't imagine it being more than 3 times higher).
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2006/10/Mark8Fan/
The 30 Amp requirement will not require all those expensive bits. You can buy 30, 40, or 60 (or higher) Amp automotive relays here:
http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/en-...tive-relay.html


Andys

[codices]

For any of you who are fabricators this is a cool site.

Dave

I've long thought about making a new hood to get the hot air out of the top, it has to work better, not sure I need it, but most all the production mid engine water cooled cars are made that way with the exception of the early panteras. So I went looking at panteras and found an amazing site that will interest all you fabricators. What a job this guy has done......
http://www.hemipanter.se/

[joefri187]

Ebay Rules! Radiator and fans for less than $300 and a little fabrication beats $1100 any day... As for the "Engineering," there is enough information on this site to figure out just about anything...

[marks914]

Had one custom Made at Ray'sRadiator in Waren, MI
I had to make the mounts and shroud, added 2 950 CFM fans, but for $275.00, works great, never over 180F running around 425HP so, it all worked out great. Its a dual pass, 2 row 1-1/4" tubes in the cores
Mark
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/inlinethumb59.webshots.com-2912-1288560020.1.jpg)

[stewteral]

100 Amps sounded way too high, so I Googled it and found the following where the article claims that Mk VIII fan draws only 30 Amps (though it doesn't say anything about startup current, but I can't imagine it being more than 3 times higher).
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2006/10/Mark8Fan/
The 30 Amp requirement will not require all those expensive bits. You can buy 30, 40, or 60 (or higher) Amp automotive relays here:
http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/en-...tive-relay.html

Andys

Hey Andy,

As you know, I'm a sales guy in the power electronics world and have learned the start-up inductive load for electric motors can go as high as 6 times normal running current. However, there are a lot of variable, starting with the motor design, wire gauge, operating RPM, the Length of time the Peak current is drawn, etc. There are Slo-Blow fuses available designed to ride-through the current peaks to avoid nuisance "blows", but I have not seen them to be readily available.

If the fan is ACTUALLY rated at 30 Amps constant running, rather than "Rated to 30 Amps", I would go with your suggestion of using 60 amp relays and 60 amp circuit breakers from wiring products.

Best,
Terryu

[Britain Smith]

Ok, lots of good info on radiators here...I need to see option for routing the coolant lines and what type of hoses are being used.

-Britain

[charliew]

I would use at least 1.250 id hoses, 1.50 would be better. Just like with a spray gun the longer the hose the higher the pressure needed to get the spray gun to work. Also any 90 degree bends really hurts the flow volume. I use two 1700 cfm fans on my 63 jeep truck with a mild 350 with ac in it. If the battery is beside the radiator the power supply leads to the fan relays won't need to be very long. And as stated earlier I would use circuit breakers instead of fuses, they will reset automatically after cooling off real quick.

Cubic inches is not the way to figgure heat requirements, it's figgured on horsepower as power is heat.

[Mike Bellis]

Ok, lots of good info on radiators here...I need to see option for routing the coolant lines and what type of hoses are being used.

-Britain

I use Drake 1" hoses under the car. My car actually runs too cool 160 highway, 180 in town. The smaller hose keeps the velocity up. A larger hose will slow down flow. 1 inch Hose is what Renegade Hybrids use on all installs.

[Britain Smith]

The Subaru motor has 1.25 ID, 1.5 OD lines coming off the motor and the whole thing is pressurized. I was considering running 1.5" OD, 0.058" wall thickness aluminum pipes.

Does anyone have any pictures of their set-ups?

-Britain

[Britain Smith]

I have also considered running the lines thru the longs like this...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.patrickmotorsports.com-364-1288843544.1.gif)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.patrickmotorsports.com-364-1288843546.2.jpg)

Nice work by Kent Porter BTW!

[Mike Bellis]

If you run lines inside, it WILL get hot. My last one had cooant lines in the center tunnel. Always too hot in the cab. I run them under the car now in the two factory recesses with some 2 hole straps holding it on. It works great. I occasionally bottom out on speed bumps if they are really tall. My car is LOW. Rubber hose will collaps breifly on the bump and open right back up again. No big deal. Hard lines would crush or tear if mounted under the car. If you run lines in the car like the picture, your left foot will always be uncomfortably hot! You will not enjoy driving long distance in the summer as much.

[Andyrew]

I agree, the best place to run lines is in the factory recess.

[Phoenix-MN]

The Subaru motor has 1.25 ID, 1.5 OD lines coming off the motor and the whole thing is pressurized. I was considering running 1.5" OD, 0.058" wall thickness aluminum pipes.

Does anyone have any pictures of their set-ups?

-Britain

1.25" and 1.5" Stainless under the car, pictures at:

http://phoenixhobbies.com/html/cooling.html

Paul

[914GT]

I've got 3/4" steel pipe in the underneath recesses, scraping or damaging the pipe is not an issue. The engine support bar extends down lower so that's what I'm careful with on speed bumps.

[Mike Bellis]

The Subaru motor has 1.25 ID, 1.5 OD lines coming off the motor and the whole thing is pressurized. I was considering running 1.5" OD, 0.058" wall thickness aluminum pipes.

Does anyone have any pictures of their set-ups?

-Britain

1.25" and 1.5" Stainless under the car, pictures at:

http://phoenixhobbies.com/html/cooling.html

Paul

I must admit the aluminum looks like top notch work. I would still be a little afraid of grinding over time that could lead to failure.