914 altenator needs to be replaced, shop wants $450 to do it...., What other ways can I replace it? Options

[Ds1]

So the shop I brought my car to wants $450 to do the altenator and voltage regulater (that includes the new parts) but I mean come on, thats $300 of labor even if the parts cost $150! I'm fine with doing it myself, but what do you guys have for suggestions on the situation? I haven't done a 914 altenator before...

[benalishhero]

Try a new regulator 1st.

[Ds1]

Why is that? are they more common to fail?

[benalishhero]

Yes and much easier to replace.

[tat2dphreak]

new regulator takes 5 minutes to install... try that first and it does not cost much.

and $150 for the parts is probably too high too...

I picked up an after-market Alternator at O'Reilly's, it had to be modified(shortening the back bolts) but it was under $50 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

the actual installation... well, it sucks. but it's not un-doable. hell, if I did it, it can't be that bad... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[montoya 73 2.0]

the actual installation... well, it sucks. but it's not un-doable. hell, if I did it, it can't be that bad... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I did it with the motor in the car and it does suck but it can be done! I actually started to follow the Hayne's book, then i found the tech article on this site on how to remove it. Link below.

Alternator Removal and Replacement

I also agree with starting with the Regulator. I've been into VW's since 1984 and I found it alot easier on my wallet to start cheap and work your way to expensive!

[ChrisFoley]

It shouldn't take much over an hour (maybe up to 2 hours) to replace an alternator and VR, even on the ground (with the left side on jack stands), without prior experience.

Disconnect the battery first!

[aircooledtechguy]

I too would try the voltage regulator first since they are relatively cheap and easy to replace.

Pay the $$$ and get a true Bosch alternator and regulator though. I would NOT get one of those major part store brands when installing it is such a PITA. You do NOT want to be doing this over in 6 months or a year when that "Hencho en Mexico" alternator or regulator craps out again. $150 for parts sounds like a pretty good deal to me if it's Bosch parts. The labor seems about right if not just a little high but it'll seem like a deal if you decide to tackle it yourself. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[pbanders]

Before you proceed, make sure you're certain what components really need to be replaced. I strongly suggest that you read this article on the VW/914 charging system:

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/ChargingSystem.html

Procedures are given in the article that will help you exactly identify what is wrong. People waste a LOT of time and money chasing problems with their charging system by swapping parts.

I also suggest that if your VR proves to be faulty that you replace it with the updated Bosch unit mentioned in the article (0 192 062 007), which eliminates the mechanical switching and does a better job of regulation, avoiding battery problems.

Grounding and cabling is an issue with this system, especially on our older cars. I would take a very critical eye on any ground or positive cable, and use a dremel with a wire wheel to clean every ground point. I also run an additional heavy gauge ground directly from the alternator case to the chassis, because the stock ground path (through the alternator pivot, to the engine, then tranny, then tranny ground strap) has enough resistance to produce about a 0.5V drop at high current levels, resulting in lower system voltages. Many battery ground and positive cables are also often shot and need replacing, and the battery cable clamps need to be checked out.

[underthetire]

Does the g light come on on the dash? If not, a burned out bulb will stop the alternator from working from what i've read. Has something to do with the field line.

[VaccaRabite]

2 hours to do if you have never done it before, and have any mechanical know how. Its only a pain due to the fact that some of the bits are hard to reach, and hard to see. The engine does not need to come out. once you get the old unit out, getting the new unit in is easy. You already know where are the tricky parts are!

Zach

[Cap'n Krusty]

The shop's cost on the genuine Bosch parts is about $110. In order to stay in business and make a modest profit at the same time, business experts recommend a 100% MINIMUM markup, although a lot of shops don't do that. Figuring time for testing, putting the car on the rack, writing the repair order, and actually doing the work is about 1.5 hours for someone really familiar with the job. Add a half hour for repairing what the last guy (or guys) messed up and/or damaged, and for stuck, chingered, rusted, missing, or otherwise damaged hardware. Probably want to change the belt, too. Considering that, $450 is a bargain. I probably wouldn't do it for that unless you were a friend or a REALLY good regular customer.

[EdwardBlume]

I blew an airbag on my Class A and the shop rate in Livermore CA is..... $135 / hr... Ouch. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif)

[jsayre914]

time to upgrade (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...167&hl=high

[McMark]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with the Cap'n. $450 is spot on. Apparently I need to raise my shop rate and my parts markup. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

That being said, I also agree that there are a lot of other things it could be, so hopefully your shot did some thorough troubleshooting first.

[Dave_Darling]

I think 2 hours with no experience is optimistic. A pro should be able to whip it out in less time than that, but we ain't pros...

The worst part on mine was the one engine tin screw that faces forward. If you've tried removing that left-front corner of the engine tin (makes alternator access much easier!) you'll know the one I mean. The only screwdriver I had which fit was about 10 times too long for the space available. I finally was able to improvise (I don't remember with what; it's been quite a while now, possibly vise-grips?) and remove it. That was one of the reasons I went with Allen-head screws for all of the engine tin.

Let's see. Lessons from my experience:

- Double-check the alternator to make sure the stud inside does not contact the rear cover. (Thanks to the Cap'n for that one!)
- Be careful removing the cooling boot; they are old and tend to be fragile.
- Make drawings or take pictures of what order things go in. It's really depressing to look down and see a washer or a piece of sheet metal that should have been the second thing installed when you're just about done.
- Don't forget to thread the red wire with the ring terminal on it through the rear engine tin and connect it to the starter.

--DD

[realred914]

So the shop I brought my car to wants $450 to do the altenator and voltage regulater (that includes the new parts) but I mean come on, thats $300 of labor even if the parts cost $150! I'm fine with doing it myself, but what do you guys have for suggestions on the situation? I haven't done a 914 altenator before...

it is p[retty easy to do the price for labour is way too steep so do it your self it is a not dificult to do job jack upt eh car, remove teh the metal tin and lossen it off the motor after wires disconected tehe haynes manual will help you with parts views. besure to unhook the battery first!!!! get a new Vee-belt when your at it also. I add metal braiding sleave over the wire harness that comes out near teh head and heater stuff, to help the wires stay cooler and not chafe. do not ignotre a deterated air cooling tube they is made of rubber and sometimes are misisng or torn, they diretc bled air form fan to cool the alternator

bsure you alternater is the probelm first however, bad wire conections are one probelm to look at first, same with check on reguilater first also. also a bad batery can make you think the cahrging is bad when it is not (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)

[Elliot Cannon]

On ANY electrical problem, always do the easiest thing first when trouble shooting. If you have a friend close by with another 914 with no problems, borrow his voltage regulator and put in in your car (takes about 5 minutes). If it works fine then just install a new regulator. If it still doens't work then it could be the alternator. I've seen an alternator replaced in the parking lot of a bar in New Mexico in a couple hours. It's definately a pain to do but can be done. Just takes a little time.

[Cap'n Krusty]

I think 2 hours with no experience is optimistic. A pro should be able to whip it out in less time than that, but we ain't pros...

The worst part on mine was the one engine tin screw that faces forward. If you've tried removing that left-front corner of the engine tin (makes alternator access much easier!) you'll know the one I mean. The only screwdriver I had which fit was about 10 times too long for the space available. I finally was able to improvise (I don't remember with what; it's been quite a while now, possibly vise-grips?) and remove it. That was one of the reasons I went with Allen-head screws for all of the engine tin.

Let's see. Lessons from my experience:

- Double-check the alternator to make sure the stud inside does not contact the rear cover. (Thanks to the Cap'n for that one!)
- Be careful removing the cooling boot; they are old and tend to be fragile.
- Make drawings or take pictures of what order things go in. It's really depressing to look down and see a washer or a piece of sheet metal that should have been the second thing installed when you're just about done.
- Don't forget to thread the red wire with the ring terminal on it through the rear engine tin and connect it to the starter.

--DD

And what did I say about "the last guy"? That screw is supposed to be a 6 x 12 bolt, not a slot head screw. There goes some of that extra labor time. You often find the pivot bolt has been replaced with a regular bolt, or the bracket ha cracked or the square hole is wasted. These things all make for extra time and expense.

The Cap'n

[underthetire]

Ya, and if I listened to Krusty the first time, I wouldn't be soo good at changing starters. Buy the bosch and have it tested before you put it in. You don't want to do that job more than once if you can avoid it.