Body/Paint Shop Reccos & Estimates, SoCal, CA & Out-of-State Options

[Tom_T]

Edited below for clarity, based on some members' comments ....

OK - so I'm in the process of stripping down to shell my matching nos. early 73 914-2.0 which I've owned since Dec. 75 as 2nd owner, for prior accident repairs & rustoration & a full on resto back to the original L80E Light Ivory, & I need some reccos on top quality body/paint shops to check out for my repairs.

Shops/pros - please read this first post all the way through & look at the pix on the series of following posts to use. Plz let me know by email/PM (buttons at lower left of my posts) if you need better pix, because these are the lo-rez cellphone cam pix to post here (due to the upload size limit here), but I do have hi-rez ones too big to post here which I can email to you.

I'm seeking preliminary estimates with the major work items listed with work/hours/rates, as you would to for that first estimate for anybody coming in with their car the first time. I do fully recognize that we will need to get a more detailed "semi-final" estimate prior to starting work, as well as that after the media blast of the shell & as work progresses - other things may come up as "add-ons" later - beyond whatever is included in the estimate (& probably will).

I need this cost & work info. now to help me with determining if it is economically feasible to transport out-of-the-area or out-of-state for the reasons stated below - vs. a local shop with the CA state limitations, as well as for my overall budgeting of this "little project" & to begin the process of selecting a shop. This prelim. estimate may also show that I'll have to do more of the prelim. & prep work myself - depending on the overall estimated cost, for which I'd look to you to advise whether or not & what I should do (as of now I am stripping the 914 to shell myself & will build it back & restore the smaller items myself).

Members - plz at least read what I'm asking for here below & why, before you jump in & post something not useful - then plz restrain yourself anyway if you are still tempted to make this a bash session! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) However, if you're too busy to plod through all of the pix which I've provided for actual shop guys to estimate off of, then just give me your reccos for good shops here in SoCal or your local area!
.... maybe even send them the link to this to look at themselves.

What I do not need are yet more misc. "members' " comments on why bother, why take to a shop, you're nuts, etc.; & you CO guys - save your fingers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif) on comments about how you'd cut that one up for scrap etc. - heard them before, don't need them again! No comments on go buy the equipment/tools & do it yourself - since I'm going on 58, want only to get my single 914 "good old friend" back on the road with a top quality job beyond the amateur or beginner's skill level which I possess, & I won't be doing a bunch more restos to amortize the costs of several $1000s in tools & equipment!!

No questions on sanity - face it - we're all crazy to love these fun little rust bucket go-karts! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I know that many of you are skilled & equipped to do a fine job on your own cars & want to encourage others to do so, but I'm just not comfortable in doing so, & feel that the money which I'd spend on the necessary tools & equipment would be better spent on a pro!! However, I may get a blast cabinet & compressor to help me resto smaller parts & repaint myself &/or PC/replate out (or may send those out too), and there are other detailed & smaller things which I can & will do on my resto.

Type, Scope & Quality of Body & Paint work desired:

Due to my own limited skills/expertise in this area, lack of tools/equipment, & the fact that I won't be making an ongoing hobby/job of this type of thing beyond my 914 here - I'm looking for highly professional quality sheetmetal & welding work on the body with smooth joints wherever exposed (something it would take me years to perfect - if ever), & minimal or no bondo except for final shaping & glazing etc., this is after a bench pull (Cellete or equiv.), media blast entire shell & any transferred parts from donor shell/etc., & then finished with a high quality paint & etching primer & full body rust protection & underpan/wheel-wells factory type chip protection - giving me a resto job which will last 10-20 years on a semi-retired & somewhat infrequently driven semi-garage queen for SoCal (I do plan to drive it some), which can pass muster with the CW crowd (even if I never show it myself beyond local wash-n-shine).

What I do need are opinions & reccos on -

1.) Pros & Cons of going out of CA for at least the paint, if not bodywork too - due to:

a.) CA has banned almost all solvent based paints here now, allowing primarily only water based auto paints - which doesn't seem like a bright idea with our rust prone babies! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) ... yeah, I know - epoxy bonding primer underneath, but still!!?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) Also, I'm hearing horror tales (some from shop owners here) that the water based paints are problematic to shoot, to get to lay right, to not bubble up later & to last well at all!

So I'm thinking it may be better to cross the border where I can still get the top shop recommended paint mfgrs.' old school solvent based Glasurit, Sikkends (?), Dupont, PPG, etc. paints shot. Any thoughts &/or reccos? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

b.) I've talked to some of the members here & other Porshe owners of all stripes likewise recommending going out of CA, due to far lower labor rates (+/- $50 vs. $100+/hr.) - which may or may not offset the costs of shipping 2 shells out & 1 & bits back & doesn't blow the cost out of the water. Based on renting a 16' box Penske truck to move my deceased in-laws things out here to SoCal from Little Rock AR last summer, I estimate it would be $1000 - $1500 each way with rental, fuel, food & lodging - for a trailer + truck or longer box truck for 2 shells - so $2-3000 for both ways depending on distance, etc. Any thoughts, quotes &/or reccos? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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2.) If the above seems a good way to go, then I need reccos for out-of-state Paint/Body shops with expertise in 914s & an in-house or access to a Cellette Bench (or equiv.) - preferably in AZ or NV - or even further afield (Scotty?, Rick O. @ Area 51?, George/AA?, etc.??) - in all cases assuming that they don't have similar paint limitations to CA, & assuming that shipping 2 shells up & 1 back doesn't blow the cost out of the water - or at least that the lower labor rates offset it. Any thoughts, quotes &/or reccos? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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3.) Additionally - reccos for Paint/Body shops with expertise in 914s & an in-house or access to a Cellette Bench (or equiv.) - preferably in SoCal (San Diego, OC, LA to Santa Barbara/Bakersfield areas') where I can get to them somewhat easily for any in-progress issues (esp. after media blasting shows up any additional "warts"); but up further north would be considered too if shipping 2 shells up & 1.5 back doesn't blow the cost out of the water (SF Bay Area is close to the same distance as to Vegas or Phoenix, etc. for moving the shells).
Any thoughts, quotes &/or reccos? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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Background on My 914:

Before it was hit (see below), back in 80-83 it had a $6500 "rolling resto" & overhauled engine/trans, 4 Koni Reds, etc. ($20,000+ in today's dollars) - & I only had about 20k miles on it after that, which I why I decided to put in in my garage & save it to do later given the "new" drivetrain/etc., but I needed & got another car because I needed a new DD immediately then.

The bad - it has F&R end damage from when that sorority ditz hit it in the UCLA parking structure & pushed it into the wall in 5/85 when she "...forgot to turn left & go up the ramp...." (her words) - which will require a Cellette Bench pull to assure a straight unibody, as well as to pull out what can be retained & refinished on my 914 (probably front face panel & F&R fenders L&R sides - all 4); then the rear R trunk floor & R face panel cut in from the donor shell, & the headlight box/partial F trunk to F face panel brace & maybe the inner LF wheel well cut in from the donor.

I do have the original 1985 estimate for reference, which had a bench pull & the accident damage repair/repaint, but no rust repair back then (if anybody needs to see it - PM/email me & I'll shot a hi-rez pic & email it to you).

Plus since then - although it went in there rust free & freshly restored/repaired before the accident - while sitting in my SoCal garage "festering" for the past 25+/- years, it has gained "through" or "holing" rust damage: on the pass. underbody at the steering rack strut/brace base (2"x3" "L" shaped rust rot hole in pic to follow), battery tray/hell hole, firewall at the upper-lower seam area & central engine shelf, some "topside" rust bubbles at L&R sail/fender/rear-doorjamb-top & cowl/fender joints with some very small bubbles along cowl at windshield, & in the F trunk seal channels, & along both door inner shell/frame botttoms.

FYI - as an additional consideration, there could be more rust damamge under the fuel tank when I remove all that stuff above where the 2"x3" "L" shaped rust rot is in the pic at the pass. side steering rack strut, &/or under the interior floor pan tar, but the underside floor pan there only has surface rust. (see below & pix)

There is also some surface rust at the main underbody floorpan, inner F trunk floor & R trunk cross brace & floor. All of those passed the screwdriver test, & the latter of which I've wire-wheeled & treated with rust-eater & Wurth zinc primer as a temporary fix until the shell is media blasted & re-primed/etc. & will do so with most other areas too), plus rust along the L&R door bottoms/etc. The doors, F&R trunk lids & some of the others noted being replaced or cut-in with new/NOS or clean-used replacement parts.

The Targa Top also needs refinished in the proper paint/texture/finish, & a small 1/4" nick repaired on the leading edge, which I may repair the nick with 2 part epoxy & resurface myself). But I'd like a price on that item too, as an option to have it done professionally.

The good - an almost new drive train which will get a refreshing along with new brake system & soft parts/lines everywhere, new bushings & tie-rods & refinished misc. parts, interior work, etc. by me; & it appears to have solid floor pans/members (still have to take off the tar to be sure), underbody, fenders, F trunk & cockpit bulkheads, etc., & solid longs (still have to remove jack posts/supports to check behind, but screwdriver test in there only revealed surface rust so far). (see pix)

I also have a 74 2L donor parts shell which has most all of the major parts which I need to either remount on mine (doors & trunk lids) or cut-n-weld into mine - such as the F&R clips/panels/portions-of, firewall, floor pan at pass. steering rack strut (the entire floor pan F to engine bay appears to be solid if more is needed), sail-to-fender panels, hell-hole, etc. I have new replacement jack posts/supports, battery tray, etc. as noted below. Additionally, I will try to source any other parts not usable from this shell as either solid rust-free used, NOS &/or Restoration Design pieces, etc., &/or may have to treat any ones the shop sources if/as needed as add-ons.

Additionally, I already have a new replacement battery tray/support & jack posts/supports for L&R in hand, & will be looking for a better rust free R trunk lid, driver door, L&R rocker panels & F&R lower valances. I may try to find steel NOS F&R valances &/or new steel repro rockers, if the ones off of my 914 &/or the donor shell cannot be properly restored/repaired.

I have most needed seals & will get the others; & I will install of the body seals, front tits, F&R top pads, etc.; as well as new/refinished chrome trim, wipers/washers, sail/rollbar vinyl, etc.; & will source the rest of the needed parts myself.

I have a restorable DD/core R chrome Bumper & am looking to trade a restorable DD/core 70-72 F chrome bumper for the 73-74 flavor with the F tit mounting holes & back braces - both of which I can either have restored & 3-step re-chromed locally or where the TBD shop is located, then install them & the rockers & valances, etc. myself.

I'm willing & able to strip it to a shell/roller, & build it back from the shell - so it won't be included for the TBD Shop stripping & rebuilding the shell, except to mount & align the repainted/replacement doors & F&R trunk & engine lids (maybe headlight mechs./covers/eyebrows if needed for gap & fit alignment).

Here are some general pix for reference, but if a shop wants more in hi-rez, then email or PM me with your email & what you need for an estimate, so I can send them to you (too much of a PITA to crop or downsize from 1-4 MB each to fit the 500 KB limit here). Likewise, PM or email me if you want to make an appt. to come out & see it in person (just don't tell me to drive it nor trailer it over for an estimate at this stage), &/or if you want my cell no. or me to call you.

For "members" & those who have had similar work done by a shop before - I'd appreciate your input on what you think the "ballpark overall cost" of this scope of work might run me in your area (i.e.: I'm not asking members for line item estimates).

For shops - I understand that more items may come up when the shell is media blasted & other work done & uncovers issues which will be beyond the estimated scope. I will work with you on this, but I expect good communication with the customer/client (me) on these matters with clear additions to scope & cost for such additional work which may come up.

I do want a typical professional type estimate - which will be mutually understood at this point to be a preliminary estimate only, but with items included thereon as complete & accurate as possible - showing line items for work segments with hours & labor rates, any needed parts & prices (beyond what I'm providing), local taxes, etc. For example: R&R Rear Face Panel & Rear Trunk Floor Sheet Metal - 5 hours x $100/hr = $500, etc.
(BTW - some "members" here have questioned that a body shop can do this, so I'm explaining more for their benefit, since most shops do this every day & I know you know what I'm asking for here.)

I will also need shop references on other 914s, etc.

I also may have to take on portions of this work myself - beyond what I'm initially envisioning (& already have in doing the strip to shell & build back myself) - in order to fit in a reasonable budget which I can afford. That is another reason why I need line items & costs, then I can discuss with the selected shop/pro what is realistic for me to do & back that portion out of the work.

From shops/pros I don't want a simple lump sum "ball park" nor "bring it in & open your checkbook" proposal! I've had many paint-n-body estimates in my 43 years of driving & know what they should look like, & don't even think it's legal in CA & most states to give a lump sum estimate anymore. After 40 years in the construction & development industry, I'm used to having clear scope & cost budgets & estimates, and in dealing with Change Orders & other additional work items. What is key in these situations is a good trust relationship & professional dealings between the parties. Tell me what it is, how & how much, & why - we come to a mutual agreement, then proceed as agreed, without quibbling over what was included at first & not - we look at the estimate/quote & go by that.

I apologize if my level of detail on these things may put some folks on here off, but that's the way I am & want it laid out up front & anything "extra" which comes up later will be worked out in a mutually agreeable manner. I'm not trying to be a PITA, but just to cover all of the bases, as it is in everybody's best interest (me & shop/pro) to disclose as much about the condition & needed work as possible now, which is what I've tried to do here.

Please PM or email me if you need further info, if you want to call me to discuss it further, come & see the 914s in person; &/or if you need better, more detailed &/or other pix of other things. I can also put the hi-rez pix on CDs & mail them to shops/pros.

Thanx everybody! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Tom T
Orange CA

Here go the pix, which will probably take me several/many posts - so be patient before you start responding to this ...

Donor shell pix of the appropriate areas will be last.

Starting with the front end damage on mine, which a few experts have said looks like it will mostly pull out on a bench, but the F lid & chrome bumper will be replaced, & the LF Lightbox, inner brace & wheel well may still need replaced anyway - all of which I have on the shell & "loose parts" (still hunting a restorable/rechromeable core or NOS F 73-74 chrome bumper) -









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[sww914]

All solvent based paints are not illegal in Ca. Some manufacturers have developed or modified their formula to be compliant. Sherwin-Williams, Nason, Valspar and Transstar have compliant solvent paints. All of the clearcoat is still solvent based.
We won't know how good the new formulas are for another 20 years or so.

[Tom_T]

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Starting on the rust in the F trunk seal channels & cowl to fender joints -







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Top pic is at top of R headlight box - L one is rusted too, but assume it will be replaced with the LF headlight box from the donor shell - Bottom pic is the rearmost channel with a rust hile behind where the paint is chipped to white (as well as where the L&R cowl/fender joints meet the channel as shown in the other pix), but I don't have a lo-rez cel-cam pic of it (can email one in hi-rez - & again I can email or mail CD of anything else needed in higher rez) -







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[kconway]

Tom,
I was in your position a few years ago, looking for the same things. I was recommended to a local guy from the board here who did some bodywork for me out of his home (I believe I PM'd to you his contact info sometime ago after speaking to him to see if he would be interested). The extend to the work ranged from minor dings and a few moderate dents and rust repair to GT flare welding. My scope of work grew over time but his rates for the work were very good and he turned out to be a great guy that I'd would highly recommend.

When it came time to paint I was able to buy solvent based PPG metallic paint locally (Long Beach) and found a guy who rented booth time at a local shop to shoot it. Probably not the optimum scenario, I would have rather find a one-stop shop but that simply wasn't an option with my budget.

Kev

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Showing front deck lid bowed (see later pix of perfect rust free replacement from donor shell) - then pix of rust bubbles at cowl/windshield area -







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[kconway]

One other comment on solvent based paints in Cali. I've been told by a guy who runs a plating shop (who paints small things) that a shop that does restorations is allowed to spray a very small amount of solvent based paint a week or month. Something like 1 gallon or so. Maybe someone can chime in here to confirm that comment, maybe I was dreaming or something? Point is, it is possible to paint a 914 with a gallon of good paint and have some left over. I did everything but the interior, including door jambs, front & rear trunks and engine compartment.
Kev

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2" x 3" "L-shape" rust rot @ pass. side steering rack brace/strut to cut & replace from donor shell -





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Now to the rear end accident damage - by far the worst because it's where the gal's Honda hit & pushed the front 2' fwd. into the wall - also shows that the L hinge plate for the R trunk lid is broken (I have new 2 each of replacement hinges, bolts & rollers for both L&R sides) -









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[orange914]

tom, a few suggestions if i might add...

when our 73 was wacked in the front it was a close call to replace front fender & front misc. or hammer out. we decided to hammer out. it came out GREAT, i'm really glad we DIDN'T cut. it was much worse than yours appears to be. i'd really vote to find a good body shop to pull it.

i don't know if you've ever done a ground up or not, but for me i learned to establish 4 or 5 basic and realistic phases and the vital importance of organization, not just organization, but over the top overkill organization of removed parts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif).

that said my thought is your not to the cost estimate stage yet. you may get a ballpark, but there are way too many variables yet. if you are commited my start would be to teardown (baggie and mark and shelve everthing). you'll know so much more about the car at that point.

best of luck, i'm sure your car will come out top notch. do you plan on any modifications or stock? keep i mind the early 73' thing and let us know of any other weird things you come accross for my research on them if you don't mind

mike (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)