Stiffening kit/rollcage or both? Options

[oldsoldier]

Just bought a 1973 914 with plans of autox / roadcourse PDX only. I've just had the engine (1.7 carbed) rebuilt as well as the complete brake system done. I bought a used 914 rollcage (4 point bolt in) and plan on installing it next month. Should I also install the stiffening kit as well or will the cage supply enough added support? Thanks in advance....Jack

[Brett W]

A proper cage will add more stiffness than any "stiffening kit" will.

[SirAndy]

Just bought a 1973 914 with plans of autox / roadcourse PDX only. I've just had the engine (1.7 carbed) rebuilt as well as the complete brake system done. I bought a used 914 rollcage (4 point bolt in) and plan on installing it next month. Should I also install the stiffening kit as well or will the cage supply enough added support? Thanks in advance....Jack

The bolt-in cages generally are of rather poor quality. At the very minimum, you should add scab plates and weld in the cage instead of bolting it in.
Also, on most, the front cross bar runs in front of the lower dash, putting in right in front of your knee caps. I wouldn't want to get caught in a crash with that.

The Engman inner long kit is a nice alternative. If you need more than that, i'd say spent the money and get a real cage welded in.
Tony at TC Design does great work. He did the full cage in my car.
http://www.tcdesignfab.com/


Here's a thread showing my cage (2nd page):
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=45327

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) Andy

[oldsoldier]

Thanks for the replys guys. I'm sort of caught between and rock and a hard place as the NV SCCA rules require that a rollcage must be bolted in place not welded.

[Richard Casto]

Thanks for the replys guys. I'm sort of caught between and rock and a hard place as the NV SCCA rules require that a rollcage must be bolted in place not welded.

It has been years since I really looked at the rules, but if I remember correctly in SCCA autocross, if you run "stock" class, then a cage is to be bolted in. If you run something such as "street prepared" class, then the cage can be welded in.

Personally, if I was to run some driving events at speed, I would focus on safety which means I would weld in a 6 or 8 point cage vs. using a bolt in four point cage. That may push you into a street prepared (or beyond) class when you autocross, but so be it. Frankly I am also assuming that the 914 is not going to be a competitive "stock" class autocross car either.

And if you get into doing track events, you will want to do other changes (i.e. not stock suspension tweaks and upgrades) that would push you out of autocross stock class anyhow. Putting in a stiffening kit is also clearly going to push you out of stock class as well.

In short there is no perfect configuration that works best for track and autocross. So be safe on track and autocross for fun (even if you don't win).

[pcar916]

If my long's were rusted I'd replace them. After that a cage is the answer. I also agree that the knee cross-brace is probably gonna break the knees in a big crash.

I'm more important than my car is. Cage it! If it has to a bolt in, I'd make sure it has gusset-plates the size of Montana to bolt into rather than sheet metal, which will only "start" to protect me.

Good luck

[URY914]

There are bolt in roll bars then there are bolt in roll bars. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

To stiffen a bolt in bar, make up plates and weld the mounting nuts to the plate, then weld the plate into the car. Bolt the cage/bars to the nuts/plate. Much better.

[J P Stein]

My.02......which has been modified by time & experience.

A 4 point roll cage avails you nothing except extra weight and makes the car less safe.... unless you are wearing a helmet at all times (even then, it's iffy). The extra structure doesn't extend past the major "flex points" (the approximate ends of the door openings) of a 914.
I feel the same way about the "long reinforcements" in the passenger compartment. A roll hoop can be welded in and will add a bit of safety......tho one would have to work at rolling over a 914.

Stiffening a 914 chassis enough to force the suspension to do it's work properly is no small chore. BTDT.

Spend your money on good tires along with a good AX alignment instead. You (or your wife) can still have fun even if the car is not competitive.

[Brett W]

Thanks for the replys guys. I'm sort of caught between and rock and a hard place as the NV SCCA rules require that a rollcage must be bolted in place not welded.

Uh, National SCCa rules allow cages to be welded in, you may need to double check or protest that rule to get the proper benefit.

[J P Stein]

My book is kinda old, but it says bolt in cages for the Stock classes.....13.2.H.

[Brett W]

Must be an autox only thing.

[jhadler]

Thanks for the replys guys. I'm sort of caught between and rock and a hard place as the NV SCCA rules require that a rollcage must be bolted in place not welded.

So you're planning on running this as a Stock class car in SCCA autox then? That's the only category I can recall that doesn't allow welded-in cages. I think you'll discover that it won't serve either you, or the car, very well to run in a stock category.

There's a whole ton of things that are very much not legal in Stock that are wide open in Street Prepared. And a lot of them are things we take for granted as simple reliability upgrades to the 914. Even something as simple as replacing the ignition points with something more modern and reliable is disallowed in stock category.

And if you're going to take the car to the track, I would strongly recommend at the very least installing a tuna-can sump extension for the oil pick-up. Something that is totally okay in SP, and not okay in Stock.

I could on about the laundry list of things that we commonly do to a 914 to make it more track/autox worthy that isn't legal to in the "new-replaces-old" world of SCCA stock category autox.

This, of course, is predicated on the concept that you want your car to be legal to the rules.... :-)

-Josh2

[camaroz1985]

Also you won't be able to compete in any National or Divisional events as cars are not eligible for stock class after they are 30 years old.

[Randal]

I bit the bullet and went to a full cage, which did make a huge difference in handling. It was welded to plates in 8 different places as well as being bolted via tabs to the old seat belt anchors. The difference in the car handling was pretty unbelievable.

Given that this was a race car and was towed to events I was always wearing a helmet and strapped down when in the car. Like JP I don't think it's safe to drive a full caged car without a helmet and being totally strapped in.

[EdwardBlume]

I bit the bullet and went to a full cage, which did make a huge difference in handling. It was welded to plates in 8 different places as well as being bolted via tabs to the old seat belt anchors. The difference in the car handling was pretty unbelievable.

Given that this was a race car and was towed to events I was always wearing a helmet and strapped down when in the car. Like JP I don't think it's safe to drive a full caged car without a helmet and being totally strapped in.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I had a weld in bar on a "street" car, and even with padding, it would be a lights out hard knock in a street collision...

How far are you going to take a 1.7 racer? Adding components piece meal is going to get you, when you could just buy a slick race like sww914's car at $7500

[Brett W]

I could on about the laundry list of things that we commonly do to a 914 to make it more track/autox worthy that isn't legal to in the "new-replaces-old" world of SCCA stock category autox.

-Josh2

He speak da Troof.