Do you add ZPD to your oil? Options

[computers4kids]

Here's a question to all...
Does anyone here add ZPD to their oil if they are not running a synthenthic or diesel rated oil. I know in the last couple of years oil companys have changed the formulation of motor oil to meet the goverments new GF-4/SM requirements. Consequently many of the friction reducers have been removed like zink and phospherus, and well as a few others.

What are your thoughts?

[DNHunt]

If you want to read about it. I'm sure the answer is in this article. I think somewhere in there he cautions against adding stuff to oils simply because it's hard to know what additives are already present. I use Brad Penn 20w50 and don't worry about it. If I was in a pinch and couldn't get Brad Penn I'd park the car or I probably would add some GM EOS to some Rottella.

Dave

[realred914]

Here's a question to all...
Does anyone here add ZPD to their oil if they are not running a synthenthic or diesel rated oil. I know in the last couple of years oil companys have changed the formulation of motor oil to meet the goverments new GF-4/SM requirements. Consequently many of the friction reducers have been removed like zink and phospherus, and well as a few others.

What are your thoughts?

i run ZDDP(STP 4 cylinder treatment) or buy oil with zddp in it above the SM rating amounts (ie Brad Penn).

Many Synthetic oils from the major brands is also SM rated, so I have added ZDDP to sythetic also. sythetic is not a guaruntee that you have enough zddp.

my tjhoughts is that it is needed becuase the new SM rated oils (sythetic or regular) all lack this compound that is NEEDED for your style engines.

you need the correct amout of ZDDP and all new SM rated oils lack it.

I am strongly opinionated that we need this additive from all the data I have consumed on the issue

[Cap'n Krusty]

I use Brad Penn oil in all the T4 engines I build or service. There are a lot of us here who do. Since the product already contains any materials we need, there are no messy and imprecise additives involved.

The Cap'n

[orange914]

i run ZDDP(STP 4 cylinder treatment) or buy oil with zddp in it above the SM rating amounts (ie Brad Penn).
I am strongly opinionated that we need this additive from all the data I have consumed on the issue

i've looked all over and can't find the (4 cylinder) stp anymore. any input from the modesto area? still have one more oil change of brad penn left (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[rfuerst911sc]

I use either Brad Penn or Valvoline VR1 in 20w50 as both contain enough ZPD as is. No need for a science experiment.

[0396]

I add a bottle of Swepco Oil additive

[charliew]

I like the article Motor Oil 101 it'd quite a bit longer and a little more thorough.

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

[brant]

I add GM EOS
have been doing so every oil change for the last 3-4 years
we change ours after every race (approx 8x a year)
19 quarts system, mobil One 15-50

approximately 20 gallons of mobil 1 per a year since we don't drain all of the lines each change.

[0396]

I add GM EOS
have been doing so every oil change for the last 3-4 years
we change ours after every race (approx 8x a year)
19 quarts system, mobil One 15-50

approximately 20 gallons of mobil 1 per a year since we don't drain all of the lines each change.

EOS... Well I only have 3 bottles of that stuff left. to my knowledge..GM does not make them any more.. you must have a S load of the EOS (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[brant]

I bought a number of cases back then still have some

I think its coming back under a slightly different product name
I think its not considered "off road only" or something
worth checking with a GM dealer

[0396]

I bought a number of cases back then still have some

I think its coming back under a slightly different product name
I think its not considered "off road only" or something
worth checking with a GM dealer

Got it..thank!

[Jake Raby]

No additive thats not blended into the formulation can be effective as a solid base stock and proper formulated additive package..

Take your favorite oil and pour it int a mason jar...(anything except Brad Penn) Let it sit on the shelf for about a week. Then take that same oil and pour in an additive, stir it and let it site on the shelf for a few more days and see what happens..

The Brad Penn is an excellent oil, so excellent that I MANDATE it for my engines and have since 2006. Some people complain that its inconvenient to attain because it can't generally be bought locally.. Those people haven't had the inconvenience of an engine failure attributed to modern oils.

We are now working with Joe Gibbs on the evaluation of their BR break in oil and their hotrod and race oils.. They are willing to custom hone a formulation for us made especially for vintage aircooled engines. The evaluations are already underway.

[realred914]

We are now working with Joe Gibbs on the evaluation of their BR break in oil and their hotrod and race oils.. They are willing to custom hone a formulation for us made especially for vintage aircooled engines. The evaluations are already underway.

What are you trying to improve upon on the oils? I thought brad penn was superb oil for air cooled cars. is there some issue that you can tell us that is not right with the existing brad penn oil now sold for our aircooled cars?

how is brad penn deficient in air cooled cars?

[underthetire]

i run ZDDP(STP 4 cylinder treatment) or buy oil with zddp in it above the SM rating amounts (ie Brad Penn).
I am strongly opinionated that we need this additive from all the data I have consumed on the issue

i've looked all over and can't find the (4 cylinder) stp anymore. any input from the modesto area? still have one more oil change of brad penn left (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

I strongly recommend not using STP or Penzoil in cars. Period. Used to work in a automotive machine shop doing valve jobs as a summer job. It was really easy to tell what was used from all the nasty baked on sludge in the heads.

[orange914]

I strongly recommend not using STP or Penzoil in cars. Period. Used to work in a automotive machine shop doing valve jobs as a summer job. It was really easy to tell what was used from all the nasty baked on sludge in the heads.

AND that gaggy "stp" smell when you pull the mains

you don't see that sludge build up anymore with newer oils. i've always understood that to be from the old crudy baked and underserviced oils. especially with the parfin based oils.

[Drums66]

I strongly recommend not using STP or Penzoil in cars. Period. Used to work in a automotive machine shop doing valve jobs as a summer job. It was really easy to tell what was used from all the nasty baked on sludge in the heads.

AND that gaggy "stp" smell when you pull the mains

you don't see that sludge build up anymore with newer oils. i've always understood that to be from the old crudy baked and underserviced oils. especially with the parfin based oils.

WoW!......Andy Granatelli would be miffed and taken aback (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[Jake Raby]

We are now working with Joe Gibbs on the evaluation of their BR break in oil and their hotrod and race oils.. They are willing to custom hone a formulation for us made especially for vintage aircooled engines. The evaluations are already underway.

What are you trying to improve upon on the oils? I thought brad penn was superb oil for air cooled cars. is there some issue that you can tell us that is not right with the existing brad penn oil now sold for our aircooled cars?

how is brad penn deficient in air cooled cars?

Its not deficient in any way regarding wear and component protection. If it was I would not be mandating it for a use in my engines.

As always, we are trying to find an even better solution, because development is a constant evolution. I suppose if their was any single aspect of Brad Penn that we would try to capitalize on, it would be net output. For years we have known that Brad Penn wasn't the best oil for making all our torque and HP, Charles and I learned that in direct back to back testing of 4 different engines running 9 different oils. We have seen this time and time again since then.

The differences in output were not huge, but were significant enough to give us the extra .5 MPH that we need to set two more Land Speed Records.

Brad Penn is great for wear.. If we can create an oil that equals the Brad Penn for wear and gives us back the lost performance it'll be a double positive. I never become "satisfied" with development, its important that we have another equally effective oil to Brad Penn, never know when it may not be available again and then we are all screwed again.

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: May 9 2010, 06:41 PM

[cgnj]

Hi,

Disclaimers: I'm hooked, I get my mobil 1 for $1.00/qt. I change it every 3k. I want to do another big type IV. I hope Jake will still sell me a motor. I will put in what he says. My current motor has ceramic lifters (it's off the market). I used Rotella to break in my motor.
See this old thread http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...ic=3556&hl=

So let me tell you about my formulations bud. We met when our boys played Little League about 10 years ago. They were easily the worst two players on the team. I drove Blackjack to a game. We started talking cars. He has a 914, a Lotus Europa, the VW bus he drove to Notre Dame in the 70's to do his grad work, at least 7 other 30 year old cars in the various out buildings on his farm. He is an eclectic gearhead. He advised my son on his 2 years of summer research "Bi-functional catalysts to reduce the industrial 2 step production of Dimethoxymethane to a single step." All I can tell you is it's about making cheaper particulate free diesel fuel.

Jim has been making designer oil for 30 years. His advice to me, When you plunk down the big bucks for that Z06 Corvette, the Porsche, the Lambo, the Ferrarri, the Benz, what's on the end of the dipstick?

Carlos

Blackjack is waiting for the plasma cutter.