too much oil pressure?, high OT on the freeway Options

[VaccaRabite]

My 2056 is getting elevated oil temps on the freeway. I am using a high volume pump, and seeing about 40 pounds of pressure on the freeway when my oil is up to temp.

What I think is happening is that there is too much pressure, and the oil is not being pumped through the oil cooler due to the check valve closing the passage. However, this is just a guess, as I don't have any way to test it. All I know is that when I am driving at revs, oil temp goes up and if I keep driving at higher revs the oil temps stay up). if I drop revs, oil temps fall back into place, but I can't do that on the freeway without building a lot of head heat.

Before I go through the trouble and expense of adding an oil cooler, I want to make sure that I have checked out the simple fixes first.

What do I do to make sure oil if going through the oil cooler? What is the point where pressure cuts off passage through the cooler?

All tin is in place, and fan housing flaps divert air over the oil cooler 100% of the time (no thermostat in place, so the flaps are always set to cool).

Zach

[r_towle]

Interesting issue.
I dont know the pressure cut off, but I would ask a question.
Do you have the little air flappers on the bottom of the firewall?
We have seen a considerable cooling affect on the oil specifically when those are in place.

Rich

[VaccaRabite]

Yep, the little flaps are in place.
And I should mention that all the tin is in place. The flaps in the fan housing the always open, as I don't have a thermostat installed, so there is also air being diverted over the oil cooler. Oil used is Brad Penn 20-50.

Zach

[r_towle]

I have always seen high oil temps at 65 mph up to 100.
The air gets so smooth over the car that it heats up and highways speeds...odd car.

We used a simple sandwich adapter and a 2*10 inch oil cooler strapped right on the engine bar...so its simple top install.
We put a little duct to divert air from under the car...kinda like a shovel scoop deal.
It did the trick and we could retain the heat...not run long ass hoses etc etc.

Rich

[VaccaRabite]

We used a simple sandwich adapter and a 2*10 inch oil cooler strapped right on the engine bar...so its simple top install.
We put a little duct to divert air from under the car...kinda like a shovel scoop deal.
It did the trick and we could retain the heat...not run long ass hoses etc etc.

Rich

I was either going to do it this way, or put it right under the engine lid above the engine. Are you using a thermostat to control when the oil goes to the cooler?

What temps were you seeing before you added the cooler.

What I want to determine is if I have a problem that I can fix via tuning, or adding a stronger spring to the plunger or something. I'd like to make adding an oil cooler the last option.

Zach

[underthetire]

I get 40 PSI at 210 deg on the Fwy as well. Fought this a long time, some reasons I found are
Sound pad not anchored correctly to the firewall, allowing it to move closing off the air intake.

Heater flappers and loose tin. Mine did a huge drop in temp when I pulled of the heater crap and blocked the air ports from the shroud. I believe it was just blowing air around the big gaps in the ducting. Once I got the header in, temps dropped even more. I would think bad flapper valves could cause this as well?

Switched oil to a part synthetic.

Mine used to climb up to about 240 on the freeway before this (80 deg day or so) now i'm down to 190-200 or so.

[Lennies914]

Zach,
I had this exact discussion with BDStone at WCR this weekend. You should PM him. He has worked for Hayden coolers for many years and is very knowledgable. I questioned him on oil pressure vs. cooling, and it's a myth. Rather than me try to give you second hand info you should contact him directly.
Lennie

[r_towle]

I recall that either aircooled.net, cbperformance, or one of the german type 4 tuners had a spring/plunger kit for the type 4.

I also (its foggy) remember that when you go to a high output pump, you need to swap over the spring to match.

I think if you call CB, they should be able to advise...or aircooled.net.

I agree, you should not have to put in a cooler.
I took it out once the car stopped being a track car...the track is what was killing it.
Autox is simple one minute runs...no need for an oil cooler.
Street is also simple enough...no need for a cooler.

To much advance....even 2-4 degrees, will raise up the temps quite a bit.

If you have a real good digital timing light that you can set the advance....tune it to 30 degrees first...then drop back.
I found it a really hard start at anything below 28 degrees.
It gets really hot at anything from 30-34 degrees.

So that is the level of detail in timing that I have experienced...and its amazing what a couple of degrees will do to an aircooled.

Given your carbs....I would still check the timing at full advance
Get the car up to 3500 and pin the linkage there with a ziptie or a piece of string..
Then check you timing.

If you dont have the fancy timing light (I dont) you can mark the fan (printable gauge on PP)
I used a pic or sratch awl to mark the ten degrees in both directions...I did the first on in the car (it sucked) I did the next ones on the bench....much easier.

If you have the time, pull the front tin and pull the fan...mark it really well with a dremel...cut in little grooves.
Wipe the edge with a rag full of white paint...then wipe it all off so just the grooves are full.
This (BTW) is how to restore a framing square so you can read it again.
Rich

[VaccaRabite]

Heater flappers and loose tin. Mine did a huge drop in temp when I pulled of the heater crap and blocked the air ports from the shroud. I believe it was just blowing air around the big gaps in the ducting. Once I got the header in, temps dropped even more. I would think bad flapper valves could cause this as well?

Mine used to climb up to about 240 on the freeway before this (80 deg day or so) now i'm down to 190-200 or so.

I could try blocking the vents at the bottom of the car. My car has no heat (I use headers) so all the fan and heat ducting is out of the car. I also don't have the rubber pad on the firewall.

However, my fan shroud vents are vented to open air. I had read somewhere that capping them could be bad for cooling as it caused cavitation. But I don't think it would be that hard to cap and test them.

Your oil temps are what mine are right now on the freeway - until I pull off the freeway and take the B roads home.

Zach

[VaccaRabite]

My timing right now is at 28.5* Checked it two weeks ago when I did my valves. I have a mallory unilite and seem to have full advance by 3K - so that is where I checked it. I have tried 30* advance, and got more power for sure, but thought I heard slight pinging so I backed it off. I may try it again, though.

I'll also send a PM to BDStone. Thanks Lemmy.

Zach

[realred914]

these cars ran hot even stock (hence the factory adding the air flaps under the car, and the shrinking of the red zone on the oil temp gage.. Youhave a larger motor so even more heat is expected.
the 40 psi on freeway is not too high a pressure, any less and I'd be worried.


you may need an extra cooler.

I would certainly run a thrmostate bellows. it is poor economy to not get one, you will have much faster engine wear with no warm up ability. would you be fine running your chevy ford or honda with the thermostat removed???? come on now and get that thing in there to assure longer engine life


as far as the high temps, you might also want to check head temps to see what mihgt be out of control.

leaves and crap can block the oil cooler, check that

my stock 2.0 also runs hot on warm days on long freeway drives. have to back opff else temp keeps going up (and pressure donw!) I have all tin in place and sealed, every thing right to optimize the stock system, yet it still runs hot, i even retarded the timing a few degrees, no change!

I will be adding one oil cooler to my car becuase of this, until then I drive easy when it is hot and pay close attention to my gages and slow donw if too hot.

[VaccaRabite]

Thanks RealRed.

I have a Dakota Digital Head Temp gauge, with the sender on the #3 spark plug. My headtemps to rise on the freeway, but are about what should be expected given my terrain type and ambient temps (lots of elevation gain spread over 45 miles). As long as I put it in 4th before hitting the big hills on the freeway, my head temps stay in check. But my oil temps go up.

As I said, I will add an oil cooler, but I want to make sure that I hit the other stops first so that my fix is not actually masking the real issue.

Zach

[yeahmag]

Got an O2 on the car? If not might want to get one or try richening up a tad and see what happens. I'm playing that game now. I'd also definitely block the heater outlets in the fan shroud. Too easy to *not* try...

My heads *never* heat up. When I'm racing (full throttle) I'm lucky to see 350F. A long climb will get them to almost 400F in 5th gear.

-Aaron

[detoxcowboy]

"I recall that either aircooled.net, cbperformance, or one of the german type 4 tuners had a spring/plunger kit for the type 4.

I also (its foggy) remember that when you go to a high output pump, you need to swap over the spring to match." quote Towle

-this makes sense, seroiously balances the high output oil cooler.the ho cooler has givin you problems before? this is worth looking into.. 2 cents

[Jake Raby]

40 PSI is perfect on the highway, its not high enough to cause oil temp elevations.
How hot is the oil getting? What oil is it?
Tuning is a big part of oil temperature, of course.

[70_914]

I would certainly run a thrmostate bellows. it is poor economy to not get one, you will have much faster engine wear with no warm up ability. would you be fine running your chevy ford or honda with the thermostat removed???? come on now and get that thing in there to assure longer engine life

I have a pile of these laying around now, let me know if you need one. I heard they are hard to find, but I don't have that problem... I go and look on my work bench and find 4 of them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Like everything I have sold it would be cheap.

[VaccaRabite]

40 PSI is perfect on the highway, its not high enough to cause oil temp elevations.
How hot is the oil getting? What oil is it?
Tuning is a big part of oil temperature, of course.

~235 to 245 before I get off the freeway and on to the B roads for the rest of my trip. Oil is Brad Penn 20-50.

Got an O2 on the car? If not might want to get one or try richening up a tad and see what happens. I'm playing that game now. I'd also definitely block the heater outlets in the fan shroud. Too easy to *not* try...

I am going to try blocking them this week and then driving my car to work.

I want to add an O2, but have not done so yet.

The other thing, which you just reminded me... I bet I can get another degree or two of advance. the last time I tried it, I was using the IDF44s, which were a little lean to start with. I don't know why I did not think of that this morning when Rich asked about timing. My current 40IDF set up is much nicer, and not a tad lean like the 44s were. I need to try a little more advance. I don't know that it will solve all the problems, but it will help I bet.

Zach

[mightyohm]

We used a simple sandwich adapter and a 2*10 inch oil cooler strapped right on the engine bar...so its simple top install.
We put a little duct to divert air from under the car...kinda like a shovel scoop deal.
It did the trick and we could retain the heat...not run long ass hoses etc etc.

Do you have a pic of this?

[VaccaRabite]

I would certainly run a thrmostate bellows. it is poor economy to not get one, you will have much faster engine wear with no warm up ability. would you be fine running your chevy ford or honda with the thermostat removed???? come on now and get that thing in there to assure longer engine life

I have a pile of these laying around now, let me know if you need one. I heard they are hard to find, but I don't have that problem... I go and look on my work bench and find 4 of them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Like everything I have sold it would be cheap.

I actually have a bellows, and I think it is even functional - though I have not tested it (and may have even given it away). my issue is that the flaps, which are supposed to fail open for cooling, twice failed closed. The bushings are crap and need to be replaced - and I need to drop the motor to do that , I think. I'd rather be driving now. if the motor fails after 50K miles from longer cold starts, that would still give me ~10 years of drive time - and by then I'll want to build a new motor anyway. Given that it is usually pretty warm during the driving season, I am not too concerned about my lack of a bellows. if i did a lot of driving in the cold (remember, my car has no heat), I would put one in for sure.

Zach

[yeahmag]

I haven't gotten a solid answer on this, but I don't think you can run the thermostat with a header.