too much oil pressure?, high OT on the freeway Options

[realred914]

When I built my 2056 I did away with the thermostat for the motor and permanently put the flaps to the position to always direct air over the stock oil cooler...I also ran a very large cooler and fan up front...
Car never had an issue with temps...but I also ran stock oil pump and did not change any of the bypass springs...also ran a Tuna Can.
I had good oil pressures at all operating RPMS and temps....

Bad Bad Bad You NEED the proper warm up that the thermostat provides. Would you be ok running a Ford, Toyota or Honda with the thermostat removed? are you sure your temps are ok? running cold like after you first start the car after having it off and cool will increase wear, there is no doubt about it. also understand that ther is evidence posted that the flaps actually move during driving to help regulate the optimal temp.

I'd get the thermostat installed,do it right, your car is suffering from cold running with out the thermostat. false economy to skimp on a thermostat.

Why do so many folks with air cooled cars insist that removing of the warm up system is good for there cars? That dont happen in the world of water cooled cars, I wish folks would stop thinking they cool better or just fine with no warm up flaps and thermostat bellows.

get all that stuff installed and your engine will be much much happier. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)


high oil pressure usually means low temps (viscus oil) thus the relief valve when under higher pressure bypasses the cooler. as oil warms up and pressure drops, the relief valve sends more of the oil too the cooler. as the oil cools, the relief valve them starts to send some of the oil away from the cooler.

If you have some supper high pressure oil pump, more oil will bypass the cooler untill it gets hot enough to get thin enough for pressure to drop enough to be sent thru the cooler. If you run 90 wieght gear oil in the motor, the oil pressure would be way too high, and you'd be bypassing the cooler untill the oil got hot enough to thin it down such that pressure drops. however 90 is way too thick and it may have to get way too hot before it gets thin enough to be sent to the cooler.

your doing a balance act of pressure and temps. but you must keep in mind you motor needs a miminal oil pressure to lube ok (general rule of thimb is 10 psi per 1000 rpm as a minimal oil pressure) your oil has limits on how hot it can get before it is damaged, oil like to be not much more than 100C (boiling water at sea level) get too hot (say 125C and the oil can break down)

so you have some parameters to play with, you could put a stiffer spring int eh bypass such that the oil is sent thru the cooler at a higher pressure (ie when oil is cooler) but there is only so much you can do with springs. if the engine is shot, your oil pressure may not be high enough to ever by the cooler. if your oil is too thin, you may alway run it thru the cooler (and hence it might run cooler) however dont go too thin with the oil in attempst to get more to flow thru the cooler. there is a minimal viscosity you need to get good lubracation.

there are some knobs you can turn here to play with, the spring pressure (by pass point) and the oil viscosity.

[ChrisFoley]

I drive like a bat out of hell, pretty much all the time, and have trouble getting my oil temp up to 180. No external oil cooler. Except at idle oil pressure is always 40+psi.

[yeahmag]

Damn... So what's your secret?

[Borderline]

Zach, I haven't had the opportunity to verify this, but. I read an article on the internet which was promoting lower viscosity oil. This guy said that high viscosity oil limits the amount of oil flow through the bearings. He said that going to a lower viscosity oil will allow the oil to flow through the bearings more easily and will result in lower oil temps. That's the short version. I was going to test this on my new engine. The Brad Penn break-in oil is 30 wt and I figured if the oil pressures and temps stayed good during break-in I would stay with the the 30 wt when I changed the oil. I know B-P oil is not cheap, but it might be worth a try. Also, the original spec in the owners manual specified 30 wt. I'm one of those guys who fell into the trap of thinking higher viscosity is better. Not always.

FWIW just trying to help

[Elliot Cannon]

Start your car and put your hand down by the vents that go to the HEs and you will find a lot of cooling air goes out those vents. Definately block those off then drive the car and see if there is a difference. I have the same euro headers on a 2.2 liter type IV and I don't think they effect the oil temp much at all. I also use an aux. oil cooler under the rear trunk with the sandwich type adapter with thermostat. I duct cooling air from a scoop in the rocker panel to the cooler. It seems to work really well. 235 to 240 degrees is a bit much. Blocking off the vents is probably the easiest, cheapest thing to try and I would do that first.

[Elliot Cannon]

I got rid of the Home Depot scoop (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) and made one that fits the cooler a little better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Cap'n Krusty]

Having seen the devastating effects of CV bolt failures on tranny cases and starters, I would be afraid such an event might take out the oil cooler and consequently all the oil in a rather hasty fashion .........................

The Cap'n

[realred914]

Start your car and put your hand down by the vents that go to the HEs and you will find a lot of cooling air goes out those vents. Definately block those off then drive the car and see if there is a difference. I have the same euro headers on a 2.2 liter type IV and I don't think they effect the oil temp much at all. I also use an aux. oil cooler under the rear trunk with the sandwich type adapter with thermostat. I duct cooling air from a scoop in the rocker panel to the cooler. It seems to work really well. 235 to 240 degrees is a bit much. Blocking off the vents is probably the easiest, cheapest thing to try and I would do that first.

if your running heater exchangers, you NEED to keep air flowing thru them. else they will self distruct from too much heat. that is why the factory had bleed air going thru them even when the heater was turned "off".

[Elliot Cannon]

Having seen the devastating effects of CV bolt failures on tranny cases and starters, I would be afraid such an event might take out the oil cooler and consequently all the oil in a rather hasty fashion .........................

The Cap'n

That's a good point and I will be re-locating the oil cooler to the front some day, however if I heard the noise of a broken cv and an axle flailing around back there, using my lightning like reflexes, I would probably have the engine shut off befor the green light came on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[Cevan]

Start your car and put your hand down by the vents that go to the HEs and you will find a lot of cooling air goes out those vents. Definately block those off then drive the car and see if there is a difference. I have the same euro headers on a 2.2 liter type IV and I don't think they effect the oil temp much at all. I also use an aux. oil cooler under the rear trunk with the sandwich type adapter with thermostat. I duct cooling air from a scoop in the rocker panel to the cooler. It seems to work really well. 235 to 240 degrees is a bit much. Blocking off the vents is probably the easiest, cheapest thing to try and I would do that first.

if your running heater exchangers, you NEED to keep air flowing thru them. else they will self distruct from too much heat. that is why the factory had bleed air going thru them even when the heater was turned "off".

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread. I'm just sorting out my new motor and didn't install any of the heat components, figuring that checking the torque on the HE nuts and checking for oil leaks would be that much easier. Is this ok for short (up to 20 minutes) break-in runs?

[Bleyseng]

yeah, it will be fine.

[markb]

however if I heard the noise of a broken cv and an axle flailing around back there, using my lightning like reflexes, I would probably have the engine shut off befor the green light came on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[r_towle]

What is the history of your O.E. cooler?

Came with the motor. I flushed the inside with oil and made sure the outside had no obstructions that would block air passage when I rebuilt the motor. I did not have it ultrasonicly cleaned.

I am using a EuroRace header, and the drivers side pipes do pass right under the oil pan, so that can't be helpful.

So, right now, these are the actions I am going to take:
1) Cap the stubby vents that are supposed to go to the heaters that currently just vent to open air, and see if that puts more air into the tins.

2) Try to add a little more advance to the timing (go from 28* to 30* and see what happens).

3) add a little header wrap or header blanket to the pipes that cross under the engine case.

Do the experts here see any issues with this plan?
Zach

Advanced timing creates heat.
Keep a close eye on the heat and move one degree at a time..same day, same run on the highway and you might get it.

Put some header tape on...it may help.
My son just put tape on his motorcycle pipes...you can now touch them.
No way to touch them prior, so it really does work.

Amazon sells it online...that is where he got it.
Rich

[yeahmag]

I think too retarded makes heat too... At least that's what I've read.

[70_914]

Too much oil pressure could cause excess heat because the oil would be flowing too quickly through the cooler for it to take enough heat out of the oil.

[Jake Raby]

Thats my least favorite exhaust... For many reasons.

Jake is damn good at detecting it, but he has had some practice!

Yep, can hear it a mile away. Smell it too.

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: May 18 2010, 07:21 PM

[Chris Hamilton]

Too much oil pressure could cause excess heat because the oil would be flowing too quickly through the cooler for it to take enough heat out of the oil.

I'm sorry but that is not correct. More pressure causes better thermal conductivity to the walls of the cooler. Heat is a continual flow from the engine to the cooler, moving it more slowly is not going to help, it is simply going to conduct less thermal energy.


edit: rather than just tell you "you're wrong lol" I'll link here to an explanation which is probably more helpful than a random post on an internet forum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_contact_conductance

[70_914]

Too much oil pressure could cause excess heat because the oil would be flowing too quickly through the cooler for it to take enough heat out of the oil.

I'm sorry but that is not correct. More pressure causes better thermal conductivity to the walls of the cooler. Heat is a continual flow from the engine to the cooler, moving it more slowly is not going to help, it is simply going to conduct less thermal energy.


edit: rather than just tell you "you're wrong lol" I'll link here to an explanation which is probably more helpful than a random post on an internet forum (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_contact_conductance

"In physics, thermal contact conductance is the study of heat conduction between solid bodies in contact." First line in your article. Oil is not a solid, or there are more problems here than oil pressure.

[70_914]

Here is some information:
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/6...lic-overheating

and another article:
http://www.engineersedge.com/heat_transfer/convection.htm

There are a lot of systems for fluid cooling that need to take into account length of hoses, every fitting, direction changes for fluid and then adjust fluid flow rate to achieve the cooling effect desired. Plastic injection presses use a manifold to precicely control nozzle temperatures and is the 1 example I know about from a hands on perspective.

[Chris Hamilton]

Could you point out what part of your links apply to a front mounted oil cooler on a type IV motor?

I see a link about inefficiencies in high pressure hydraulic systems, and a second link that doesn't address pressure at all.


edit: actually your first link shows the heat dissipation of it's cooling system as directly proportional to the flow rate, which is the exact opposite of what you say above. Looks like a good example.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/media.noria.com-5687-1274254055.1.gif)
Where: kW = heat dissipation of exchanger in kilowatts

L/min = oil flow through the exchanger in liters per minute

T ºC = inlet oil temperature minus outlet oil temperature in Celsius