I.D. My Ball Joint Please? Options

[kenshapiro2002]

The car is a 1970 914 that was converted to 5 lug using late 80s/early90s 911 front end parts. Not sure if the A arms were changed over and whether the ball joints I need are 914 or 911 parts (think they're 914, but not sure). Can I get these ball joints out using non-impact, hand tools, or should I just pay a local Porsche wrench to do it? Also, I thought the retainer nut on the bottom of the joint was supposed to be facing the front. Mine is the opposite. Does it matter?

[Cap'n Krusty]

914 and 911 ball joints are the SAME. These appear to be the late version, as they use the tapered pin to secure the shaft of the ball joint to the strut. The pin goes in only one way, as the holes in the strut are different diameters. Once the nut is loosened a bit, sharply rapping on that end of the pin should free it up. Be sure the nut is still on most of the way so you don't mushroom the threads. The Cap'n

[kenshapiro2002]

The joint itself seems to be OK, and the car only has about 54,000 miles on it. Can I just replace the rubber bellow that is torn? If so, I'm guessing I only have to drop the joint from the strut and can leave it attached to the A arm?

914 and 911 ball joints are the SAME. These appear to be the late version, as they use the tapered pin to secure the shaft of the ball joint to the strut. The pin goes in only one way, as the holes in the strut are different diameters. Once the nut is loosened a bit, sharply rapping on that end of the pin should free it up. Be sure the nut is still on most of the way so you don't mushroom the threads. The Cap'n

[r_towle]

you dont replace the boot, you replace the whole ball joint.
Its a simple thing to do and they are cheap.

Rich

[kenshapiro2002]

They are not cheap, but I'll do as you say sir. "Simple" without air?

you dont replace the boot, you replace the whole ball joint.
Its a simple thing to do and they are cheap.

Rich

[kenshapiro2002]

Once I had her "airborne"...changing out the tie rod ends, I could see that when grabbing the right wheel (the ball joint where the boot is not torn), by the sides, and turning the wheel, the end of the strut was moving at the bottom end...almost seems as if the ball joint is fractured. The one with the torn boot is very tight. So, looks like I'm changing them out for more than just the boot.

With that ball joint tool (anybody wanna lend me one?) is this usually a job that can be done by hand? I have an electric impact wrench, but not much torque there.

[kenshapiro2002]

Just noticed that PP says the tool is just for installation. What's the best way for removal of the nut?

Once I had her "airborne"...changing out the tie rod ends, I could see that when grabbing the right wheel (the ball joint where the boot is not torn), by the sides, and turning the wheel, the end of the strut was moving at the bottom end...almost seems as if the ball joint is fractured. The one with the torn boot is very tight. So, looks like I'm changing them out for more than just the boot.

With that ball joint tool (anybody wanna lend me one?) is this usually a job that can be done by hand? I have an electric impact wrench, but not much torque there.

[kenshapiro2002]

Cap'n...damn...you're wrong again! These are early types. Just removed one and it is not the tapered pin. The number on the ball joint is 032-000-005-012 which I can't seem to find in any reference yet.

914 and 911 ball joints are the SAME. These appear to be the late version, as they use the tapered pin to secure the shaft of the ball joint to the strut. The pin goes in only one way, as the holes in the strut are different diameters. Once the nut is loosened a bit, sharply rapping on that end of the pin should free it up. Be sure the nut is still on most of the way so you don't mushroom the threads. The Cap'n

[kenshapiro2002]

BTW...that number is on the bellows, not the joint itself. I'll post a picture soon. Also, the nut came off pretty easily...some PB Blaster and a 14" pipe wrench.

Cap'n...damn...you're wrong again! These are early types. Just removed one and it is not the tapered pin. The number on the ball joint is 032-000-005-012 which I can't seem to find in any reference yet.

914 and 911 ball joints are the SAME. These appear to be the late version, as they use the tapered pin to secure the shaft of the ball joint to the strut. The pin goes in only one way, as the holes in the strut are different diameters. Once the nut is loosened a bit, sharply rapping on that end of the pin should free it up. Be sure the nut is still on most of the way so you don't mushroom the threads. The Cap'n

[kenshapiro2002]

Here tis. You can see how the slot on the joint is all efed up and the bolt is also bent and trashed. Guessing this is why there was so much slop on that side? Anyway, it is an early type, right? Porsche 911 up to 1971? Still...that number on the bellows seems weird. Is that where they put the numbers on a BJ?

[detoxcowboy]

Lemfroeder Ball Joints and new Pins, You can get both at Pelican.. Pins are not "cheap" neither. But look at it this way, It is not an anual repair or even close..

[Cap'n Krusty]

Look at the first picture. Does that look like a bolt head? Not to me. Look at the second. That looks like a lock nut. I can't tell what size. Looking at the strut a little closer, it looks like it might be an early strut. That "might" be a split on the side, but it's hard for these old eyes to see from that angle. Take a look at the ball joint. Is that a "V" cut on the side, or is it a "U"? If it's a "V", it's a late ball joint. Coupled with the wrong fastener, it'll be loose. If you get replacement late joints, even with the pins, they won't fit in early struts. Early struts use a through bolt and the ball joint with the "U" cut in the shaft. They're nearly all worn out, though, and there's apt to be significant slop in the fit.

The Cap'n

[kenshapiro2002]

Owe you an apology...haven't gotten the right side out yet. Getting ready to apply some heat, but I'm betting that you are right about the right side being a later year with the taper pin. The left side is an early, right? I'm betting the seller who threw some 911 struts on used one late and one early.

Look at the first picture. Does that look like a bolt head? Not to me. Look at the second. That looks like a lock nut. I can't tell what size. Looking at the strut a little closer, it looks like it might be an early strut. That "might" be a split on the side, but it's hard for these old eyes to see from that angle. Take a look at the ball joint. Is that a "V" cut on the side, or is it a "U"? If it's a "V", it's a late ball joint. Coupled with the wrong fastener, it'll be loose. If you get replacement late joints, even with the pins, they won't fit in early struts. Early struts use a through bolt and the ball joint with the "U" cut in the shaft. They're nearly all worn out, though, and there's apt to be significant slop in the fit.

The Cap'n

[kenshapiro2002]

Sure 'nuff...got an early style strut on the left and a later style on the right. PLEASE...don't let anybody buy a car from "fastal" in Madison, CT. The way be cobbled the front end together (changing over to 5 lug), so he could keep the chrome reverse 4 lugs on the car, is horrendous. Mismatched struts, no cotter pins on tie rod ends or ball joints, mismatched , and uneven sized spacers (if you remember that thread) on the hubs. It's amazing I made it home to MD.

Anyway, I assume it's OK to have one of each as long as I use the two different ball joints, right?

[kenshapiro2002]

Here are the final shots. Correct me if I'm wrong. Left side is early, with a split in the strut at the base and a bolt and nut holding the BJ to the strut. Right side is later style, with no split at the base of the strut and a tapered pin and nut holding the BJ to the strut.

[kenshapiro2002]

Here are some better shots of my left side (old style) strut. Don't see any evidence of threads in there, so I'm gonna have to go with a bolt straight through and a nut...at least until the day when I get another strut and replace the whole thing. Meanwhile, there's some kinda "booger" inside the strut that will keep me from sliding in a new ball joint (see arrow in first shot). Is this left over from some kind of tab that was supposed to be in there (guessing not) or the residual of a damaged ball joint (something I need to get rid of)? Help! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[kenshapiro2002]

Here are some better shots of my left side (old style) strut. Don't see any evidence of threads in there, so I'm gonna have to go with a bolt straight through and a nut...at least until the day when I get another strut and replace the whole thing. Meanwhile, there's some kinda "booger" inside the strut that will keep me from sliding in a new ball joint (see arrow in first shot). Is this left over from some kind of tab that was supposed to be in there (guessing not) or the residual of a damaged ball joint (something I need to get rid of)? Help! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[kenshapiro2002]

[kenshapiro2002]

Wow...sorry...site's acting weird...posting twice, in wrong order, etc. Anyway...here are two more shots of my left side, old style strut. See the "booger" (arrow) right inside the strut? It's keeping me from inserting a new BJ. Is it some kinda left over tab (me thinks not), or the remnants of a damaged previous BJ (think so)? Anyway...I'm guessing I need to get rid of it, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

[Cap'n Krusty]

That's damage from the shaft of the ball joint being loose in there. Not readily fixable, and the new joint is gonna be loose. Not good. Might be a good idea to get the part number off the good strut and let us see if we can find you a matching part for the other side. The number is stamped on the tube.

The Cap'n