I.D. My Ball Joint Please? Options

[Dr Evil]

Its obvious that the guy had no idea what he was doing. You have a bolt on the late model and a V pin on the early (exactly reversed). Had he just switched these fasteners, things would have likely been fine. Strut is now screwed. When you install the V pin, it should be flush when the nut is tightened. In your first set of pics it is obvious that the V pin was not properly installed and this is pathognomic for someone installing an old style joint with a V pin. The struts are not the same either so the correct joint has to go in the proper type of strut.

For removal I find a pipe wrench works the best, and is cheap and easy to get.

[kenshapiro2002]

Now I'm really confused...I thought the strut that was split on the end was the early style. No?

Its obvious that the guy had no idea what he was doing. You have a bolt on the late model and a V pin on the early (exactly reversed). Had he just switched these fasteners, things would have likely been fine. Strut is now screwed. When you install the V pin, it should be flush when the nut is tightened. In your first set of pics it is obvious that the V pin was not properly installed and this is pathognomic for someone installing an old style joint with a V pin. The struts are not the same either so the correct joint has to go in the proper type of strut.

For removal I find a pipe wrench works the best, and is cheap and easy to get.

[kenshapiro2002]

On my right side...with the tapered pin and no split on the end (which I'm still convinced is a later style) it reads:

1-0211-32-173-1

911-341-080-04


On my left side...with the bolt and a split end (still convinced it's an early style), it reads:

1-0221-32-981-0

901-341-079-01

[Dr Evil]

I was referring to the ball joints and fasteners being exactly backwards. An easy way to check if early or late strut is to look at the fastener holes. If the holes on the fore and aft are the same size = early as it is for a bolt. If the holes are one large and one small = late model as it is for the pin that has a smaller hole for the threaded end and larger hole for the head on the end.

[kenshapiro2002]

So...my strut on the right side...the one that had a tapered pin (not sitting flush as you noticed) is an early style? Both holes are the same size, but there's no split in the bottom.

I was referring to the ball joints and fasteners being exactly backwards. An easy way to check if early or late strut is to look at the fastener holes. If the holes on the fore and aft are the same size = early as it is for a bolt. If the holes are one large and one small = late model as it is for the pin that has a smaller hole for the threaded end and larger hole for the head on the end.

[jaxdream]

I believe Dr. evil was refering to the balljoint itself , as it seems to be the old split style ball joint , your 914 is a 70 model so it would stand to reason that the balljoints are original. The left side balljoint stud got buggered up by DAPO by trying to attach the strut, the right side strut may have seated over the stud better but the attatching mechanisim ( wedge pin ) couldn't be used because of the type of balljoint . Bottom line , if the hole in the right side strut is not all wollered out you can probably use it ok with the wedge pin type ( late ) balljoint , bad - left side strut bottom hole for balljnt stud is all wollered out , and will be insecure no matter what attaching pin / bolt you use. You should ( if it were me ) get a set of the later style ball joints ( 2 ) , a set of wedge pins and appropiate lock nuts ( 2 each ) and later style left strut housing that will bolt up the brake system you have ( 3.0 inch or 3.5 inch ?? you haven't mentioned the caliper bolt spacing ) and use the strut insert insert top cover , and the brake stuff, you maynot have to open the brake line depending on the way the brake line is attached to the strut housing, this will replace the bad strut , New balljoints on both sides , security that you know what the condition of this area is in when you get back on the road (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) , good luck dude , this car is giving you a 914 education , learning is good, just what you do with what you learn can be the betterment of your ride or become another DAPO , which it seems you are avoiding greatly . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

Jack / Jaxdream

[kenshapiro2002]

Makes sense. Still wondering why my right side...no split (new style), seems to have equal sized holes for the pin, yet my left side with a split (old style) seems to have holes of unequal sizes.

I believe Dr. evil was refering to the balljoint itself , as it seems to be the old split style ball joint , your 914 is a 70 model so it would stand to reason that the balljoints are original. The left side balljoint stud got buggered up by DAPO by trying to attach the strut, the right side strut may have seated over the stud better but the attatching mechanisim ( wedge pin ) couldn't be used because of the type of balljoint . Bottom line , if the hole in the right side strut is not all wollered out you can probably use it ok with the wedge pin type ( late ) balljoint , bad - left side strut bottom hole for balljnt stud is all wollered out , and will be insecure no matter what attaching pin / bolt you use. You should ( if it were me ) get a set of the later style ball joints ( 2 ) , a set of wedge pins and appropiate lock nuts ( 2 each ) and later style left strut housing that will bolt up the brake system you have ( 3.0 inch or 3.5 inch ?? you haven't mentioned the caliper bolt spacing ) and use the strut insert insert top cover , and the brake stuff, you maynot have to open the brake line depending on the way the brake line is attached to the strut housing, this will replace the bad strut , New balljoints on both sides , security that you know what the condition of this area is in when you get back on the road (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) , good luck dude , this car is giving you a 914 education , learning is good, just what you do with what you learn can be the betterment of your ride or become another DAPO , which it seems you are avoiding greatly . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

Jack / Jaxdream

[Dr Evil]

The new style strut housing had the wrong fastener (bolt) retaining the ball joint which was the correct type (one for a wedge pin). The opposite was true for the other strut housing. Is this now clear? Split, no split, I dont get WTF you are asking about (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[kenshapiro2002]

Alright...tried to call you but you were gone...how dare you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) I talked to Jonathan who understood my split/no split question. Forget the ball joints which are now in the trash. My right side strut, has no split at the bottom of the strut...the strut will not "squeeze " shut on the shaft of a ball joint. What holds the ball joint in place and keeps it from moving up or down, would be a tapered pin, and the nut the secures the tapered pin in place. It did in fact, have a tapered pin in there though it was not fully drawn in for some reason...probably because it was the wrong ball joint in there? This, in my new education is a later style.

On the left side, the bottom of the strut is split. The method for securing a ball joint shaft in this "early" style is compression (hence the split in the shaft). Usually, 1/2 of the bolt hole is threaded and the bolt simply uses those threads to tighten (close that split) up the split and hold onto the ball joint shaft. My threads are non existent for some reason, so I'm going to use a longer bolt with a nut on the outside.

I'll use a newer style BJ on the right side, and an older style on the left side.

Do I have this correct now? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

The new style strut housing had the wrong fastener (bolt) retaining the ball joint which was the correct type (one for a wedge pin). The opposite was true for the other strut housing. Is this now clear? Split, no split, I dont get WTF you are asking about (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[kenshapiro2002]

[jaxdream]

Yes that is probably your solution but do check the hole on the bottom of the left strut , is it wollerd / egged out too much that the bolt and nut used to close the split will not close it up enough to capture the balljoint stud ?? Take a bolt and nut of the hole size , install the bolt and tighten the nut up to close the split , then look at the hole in the bottom and determine if it is too messed up to securely hold onto the bjnt stud, it appeared in your earlier pics that it was really buggered , as I said earlier , you may have to get another strut , unless it is still serviceable or repairable. Good luck...

Jack / Jaxdream

[kenshapiro2002]

Thanks again...a new strut will eventually be happening...just wanna get her back together for now.

Yes that is probably your solution but do check the hole on the bottom of the left strut , is it wollerd / egged out too much that the bolt and nut used to close the split will not close it up enough to capture the balljoint stud ?? Take a bolt and nut of the hole size , install the bolt and tighten the nut up to close the split , then look at the hole in the bottom and determine if it is too messed up to securely hold onto the bjnt stud, it appeared in your earlier pics that it was really buggered , as I said earlier , you may have to get another strut , unless it is still serviceable or repairable. Good luck...

Jack / Jaxdream

[kenshapiro2002]

OK...doing the right side now...no split in the strut end...newer style (911-341-0
80-04)...tapered pin style...yadda, yadda. Here's my confusion...the strut holes are either the same exact size, or so close I'd need a micrometer to assess the difference. I;m guessing they're supposed to be noticeably different? So, I took the old split pin and tried it in both ways. Either way, I'm able to get a nice flush fit by tapping it in flush. Should the nut go on the front or rear side?

I was referring to the ball joints and fasteners being exactly backwards. An easy way to check if early or late strut is to look at the fastener holes. If the holes on the fore and aft are the same size = early as it is for a bolt. If the holes are one large and one small = late model as it is for the pin that has a smaller hole for the threaded end and larger hole for the head on the end.

[Dr Evil]

It looks like my recollection of hole size in the new style was wrong. The main point is that the wedge pin will not fit all the way on the old style. As for which side to bolt, I prefer to have the threads facing aft as they are not facing on coming debris. However, this could just be superstition on my part as it can go in either way.

[kenshapiro2002]

Cool...back out to finish up the job. I've waited hours to see what was wrong here! LMAO. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

It looks like my recollection of hole size in the new style was wrong. The main point is that the wedge pin will not fit all the way on the old style. As for which side to bolt, I prefer to have the threads facing aft as they are not facing on coming debris. However, this could just be superstition on my part as it can go in either way.

[kenshapiro2002]

OK...got the ball joint installed on the right side...new style.

So, I go over to the left side (old style...split end strut). The shaft of the BJ will not go up far enough inside the strut. When I stick my pinkie up in there, I feel a "domed" ceiling, where I'm thinking it should be flat...to match the top of the BJ shaft. Using a narrow punch to measure, it is in fact dome shaped! After much exploration (jeweler's loop even), there is something in there! It's an insert or something. I can even see the edge of it, and hear it resonate when I hit the edge of it with my fingernail. It's like a damn metal yarmulke (LMAO). Don't know if it's some kinda former damage repair or if the DAPO tried to shim the BJ tighter (to stop up/down movement?) because he was using the wrong type of BJ. Still can't figure out why it's dome shaped.

Anyway...my immediate plan is to try and remove it. It does not look to be threaded in like an insert or helicoil. The rest of the shaft seems to be in good shape and I think this can work once I get that "yarmulke" out of the way. It's what I plan to try before going the way of a new strut.

Ideas as to how to proceed? Drill the center and try to get a screw in it?

[kenshapiro2002]

Guess I should have waited until somebody responded! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Anyway...went out there and started to drill. I'm like freakin' BP. I hit oil. I'm guessing I ruined the shock absorber, and the strut is still ok?

Help! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[Cap'n Krusty]

Maybe I've been too subtle in my comments. BUY A REPLACEMENT STRUT of the later variety and be done with it.

The Cap'n

[kenshapiro2002]

Gotcha, but what did I do? Does the shock bottom out at the end of the strut? Is there anything separating the shock from the strut? Did I drill through anything before I hit the shock itself?

So, besides a new strut, I need new front shocks now, right. Any recommendations (driver, not an auto-Xer)?

As to the strut, am I looking for any 911, left side, newer style strut with 3" spacing for the caliper? Is that how I ask for what I need?

Thanks in advance.

Maybe I've been too subtle in my comments. BUY A REPLACEMENT STRUT of the later variety and be done with it.

The Cap'n

[Cap'n Krusty]

Get the part number off the other side. It'll be something like 911 342 043 01 (left) or 911 342 044 01 (right) with M caliper. Buy the one you don't have. Here's the PET page you need, BTW:

http://www.porsche.com/all/media/pdf/origi..._73_KATALOG.pdf


The Cap'n