Brake upgrades? What do you use? Options

[TorqueJunkie]

I have a 1973 914/6 conversion with 2.4 L engine(being rebuilt now), and I am running the Alloy "S" brake calipers up front. I am looking to upgrade the front brakes. Boxster calipers are cheaper than the Big reds and a bit smaller as I would like to run a 17" wheel or smaller.

Anyone have the boxster calipers installed? Which rotors did you use? Adapters?

I have an old set of Bremtek calipers that I might use if I can find some seal kits for them still.

New to these forums, but love all the stuff on this site...especially all the racing pics

[stewteral]

I have a 1973 914/6 conversion with 2.4 L engine(being rebuilt now), and I am running the Alloy "S" brake calipers up front. I am looking to upgrade the front brakes. Boxster calipers are cheaper than the Big reds and a bit smaller as I would like to run a 17" wheel or smaller.

Anyone have the boxster calipers installed? Which rotors did you use? Adapters?

I have an old set of Bremtek calipers that I might use if I can find some seal kits for them still.

New to these forums, but love all the stuff on this site...especially all the racing pics

Hey Torque Junkie,

For my $$, you can't beat WILWOOD brakes! On my V8 conversion 914, I'm running 12.19" x 1.25" vented Wilwood rotors ($42 on summit)
(http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2895/ (left) &
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2894/ (right)
and the 4-piston Dynalite Calipers (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-6804/) $125.

All you have to do is find the right aluminum rotor-hat to fit your application, drill them to you bolt pattern and make a very simple caliper mounting bracket.

Don't be scared! When I mount the rotors, I use a dial indicator to get them centered within 0.005" and tighten them up.

The bracket is also TOO simple..check out my pics and see.
BTW: I did ALL this fabrication myself in my garage with only a drill press and a wire-feed welder.

With the extra Chevy engine weight + driver, my rig weighs 2800 lbs and after a hard session on the Streets of Willow Springs, the front rotor only reach 420 deg. F., while the rears run at 300 deg. F.

Enjoy,
Terry

[campbellcj]

Depending how extreme your car is, and your use for it, the S caliper setup may be just fine. Regardless, you will not want to go any bigger in front without doing something in back as well.

You are most likely adding significant unsprung weight with any brake upgrade, so that also needs to be taken into consideration.

I don't need a setup as wild as Terry's since I have much less grip and aero and weight, but I may go to a Boxster setup when I add flares and go somewhat wider on tires. Right now I have a 911SC "A" caliper setup which is the same as your "S" calipers except steel vs. aluminum. It works very well on my narrow-bodied car.

[stewteral]

Depending how extreme your car is, and your use for it, the S caliper setup may be just fine. Regardless, you will not want to go any bigger in front without doing something in back as well.

You are most likely adding significant unsprung weight with any brake upgrade, so that also needs to be taken into consideration.

I don't need a setup as wild as Terry's since I have much less grip and aero and weight, but I may go to a Boxster setup when I add flares and go somewhat wider on tires. Right now I have a 911SC "A" caliper setup which is the same as your "S" calipers except steel vs. aluminum. It works very well on my narrow-bodied car.

Hey Campbellcj,

You have a good point that you don't NEED as much braking as I have (if there is such a thing as TOO MUCH braking), but my real message is how much Bang-for-the-Buck you get with these Wilwood products. Pricing is so good because the brakes are used by several stock car classes all over America and thus high volume production and price competition.

BTW: The calipers are aluminum and lighter than the originals, while the rotors are mostly air, mounted to aluminum hats. I haven't weighed old vs new, but would guess I'm weight neutral after the upgrade.

Regardless, Enjoy your car & good luck with your competition.
Terry

[TorqueJunkie]

Thanks for the input. The willwood set-up looks nice. I will take a look and see what I can find. I believe for now the alloy S calipers are enough, but might want to upgrade and the engine will have a bit more power this time around. and looking to add wider tires as well.

[camaroz1985]

Hey Torque Junkie,

For my $$, you can't beat WILWOOD brakes! On my V8 conversion 914, I'm running 12.19" x 1.25" vented Wilwood rotors ($42 on summit)
(http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2895/ (left) &
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2894/ (right)
and the 4-piston Dynalite Calipers (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-6804/) $125.

All you have to do is find the right aluminum rotor-hat to fit your application, drill them to you bolt pattern and make a very simple caliper mounting bracket.

Don't be scared! When I mount the rotors, I use a dial indicator to get them centered within 0.005" and tighten them up.

The bracket is also TOO simple..check out my pics and see.
BTW: I did ALL this fabrication myself in my garage with only a drill press and a wire-feed welder.

With the extra Chevy engine weight + driver, my rig weighs 2800 lbs and after a hard session on the Streets of Willow Springs, the front rotor only reach 420 deg. F., while the rears run at 300 deg. F.

Enjoy,
Terry

So does the rotor hat have the bearings in it, or does it slide over a hub of some sort?

[J P Stein]

"Upgrade" in regard to 914 brakes is bandied about quite a bit, here's my take on it.

Real upgrades actually consist of increasing the heat sink and/or cooling capicity of the brakes. Another is increasing the mechanical advantage of the rotor vs the wheel/tire.

The former is straight forward by adding a vented and/ or thicker rotor.
The latter is a bit tougher. You need a larger diameter rotor, a caliper with more clamping force/pad area, bigger wheels, a larger master cylinder.
Both of these add weight.....and the worst kinds, unsprung and maybe rotational weight.

If you track your car and have you've turned your 914 into a 2500 lb sled some of the above is a good plan.

The original poster needs none of this, IMO. The S caliper set up is light/vented/ and designed to stop a 300-400lb heavier car repeatedly. The soft pedal ever allows better modulation of the brakes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) If you're tracking it the most I would do would be to add some racing pads.....but those suck for the street.
Big wheels have a similar weight problem.

I use the S set up also. Works for me.

[stewteral]

Hey Torque Junkie,

For my $$, you can't beat WILWOOD brakes! On my V8 conversion 914, I'm running 12.19" x 1.25" vented Wilwood rotors ($42 on summit)
(http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2895/ (left) &
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2894/ (right)
and the 4-piston Dynalite Calipers (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-6804/) $125.

All you have to do is find the right aluminum rotor-hat to fit your application, drill them to you bolt pattern and make a very simple caliper mounting bracket.

Don't be scared! When I mount the rotors, I use a dial indicator to get them centered within 0.005" and tighten them up.

The bracket is also TOO simple..check out my pics and see.
BTW: I did ALL this fabrication myself in my garage with only a drill press and a wire-feed welder.

With the extra Chevy engine weight + driver, my rig weighs 2800 lbs and after a hard session on the Streets of Willow Springs, the front rotor only reach 420 deg. F., while the rears run at 300 deg. F.

Enjoy,
Terry

So does the rotor hat have the bearings in it, or does it slide over a hub of some sort?

Hi camaroz1985,

The rotor hats slide on the wheel studs.

In my case, I have adapter-spacers that bolt onto the Porsche 5-bolt pattern, retaining the rotor& hat with 5 studs sticking out in a Mustang pattern. Thus, I can set up the rotor position with a dial indicator, tighten the adapter and have the freedom to remove the wheels without disturbing the setup.

I could easily see 914s using Porsche-Porsche pattern spacers to do the same thing.

Best,
Terry

[rickthejetman]

I have a 1973 914/6 conversion with 2.4 L engine(being rebuilt now), and I am running the Alloy "S" brake calipers up front. I am looking to upgrade the front brakes. Boxster calipers are cheaper than the Big reds and a bit smaller as I would like to run a 17" wheel or smaller.

Anyone have the boxster calipers installed? Which rotors did you use? Adapters?

I have an old set of Bremtek calipers that I might use if I can find some seal kits for them still.

New to these forums, but love all the stuff on this site...especially all the racing pics

Hey Torque Junkie,

For my $$, you can't beat WILWOOD brakes! On my V8 conversion 914, I'm running 12.19" x 1.25" vented Wilwood rotors ($42 on summit)
(http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2895/ (left) &
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2894/ (right)
and the 4-piston Dynalite Calipers (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-6804/) $125.

All you have to do is find the right aluminum rotor-hat to fit your application, drill them to you bolt pattern and make a very simple caliper mounting bracket.

Don't be scared! When I mount the rotors, I use a dial indicator to get them centered within 0.005" and tighten them up.

The bracket is also TOO simple..check out my pics and see.
BTW: I did ALL this fabrication myself in my garage with only a drill press and a wire-feed welder.

With the extra Chevy engine weight + driver, my rig weighs 2800 lbs and after a hard session on the Streets of Willow Springs, the front rotor only reach 420 deg. F., while the rears run at 300 deg. F.

Enjoy,
Terry

quick question about you brake setup. what hubs and hats are you running? my 73 911t hubs are roughly 6.55" and all the rotor hats in the 8.00x7.0 rotor bolt patern are to small in the inner dia.
so i was just wondering what hubs you were running?

[brant]

I think you just need to buy the proper pads
I doubt you need anything more than an S caliper
they are good for 250-300hp on the track

what pad are you running?

how much does your car weigh?

[stewteral]

I have a 1973 914/6 conversion with 2.4 L engine(being rebuilt now), and I am running the Alloy "S" brake calipers up front. I am looking to upgrade the front brakes. Boxster calipers are cheaper than the Big reds and a bit smaller as I would like to run a 17" wheel or smaller.

Anyone have the boxster calipers installed? Which rotors did you use? Adapters?

I have an old set of Bremtek calipers that I might use if I can find some seal kits for them still.

New to these forums, but love all the stuff on this site...especially all the racing pics

Hey Torque Junkie,

For my $$, you can't beat WILWOOD brakes! On my V8 conversion 914, I'm running 12.19" x 1.25" vented Wilwood rotors ($42 on summit)
(http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2895/ (left) &
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-160-2894/ (right)
and the 4-piston Dynalite Calipers (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIL-120-6804/) $125.

All you have to do is find the right aluminum rotor-hat to fit your application, drill them to you bolt pattern and make a very simple caliper mounting bracket.

Don't be scared! When I mount the rotors, I use a dial indicator to get them centered within 0.005" and tighten them up.

The bracket is also TOO simple..check out my pics and see.
BTW: I did ALL this fabrication myself in my garage with only a drill press and a wire-feed welder.

With the extra Chevy engine weight + driver, my rig weighs 2800 lbs and after a hard session on the Streets of Willow Springs, the front rotor only reach 420 deg. F., while the rears run at 300 deg. F.

Enjoy,
Terry

quick question about you brake setup. what hubs and hats are you running? my 73 911t hubs are roughly 6.55" and all the rotor hats in the 8.00x7.0 rotor bolt patern are to small in the inner dia.
so i was just wondering what hubs you were running?

Hi Rick:
I'm running the same 911 hubs as in the photo of the Yellow 914. For rotor hats
I'm using Wilwood P/N 171-3758 in front and P/N 170-0764 in the rear. Per the Wilwood Drwg, the ID of these hats is 6.82". I drilled the 911 pattern holes in the hats on my drill press allowing a loose fit. Then I sandwiched the hats between the 911 hubs and my wheel adapters, snugged the nut a bit and then centered the hat/rotor assy with a dial inidcator (Harbor Freight has been selling them for $7).

I hope this helps,
Terry

[Eric_Shea]

Go watch an HSR 2 Litre Challenge event. If you're in the West, watch Frank Best. East? Bill Lewis Jr. Let us know if you can drive faster than either of them (if "yes", you're lying). Check out their calipers. Report back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[ArtechnikA]

For a good (did not say cheap) street/AX pad, go get factory/dealer '76 Turbo pads. '76-'78 Turbo used the good ol' 911S aluminum caliper and they were heavy cars. This is 30+ year technology tho...

I have had no issues on the street with Porterfield R4S in my 300HP 5000-lb daily driver (slotted disks) or Joy's 250HP 3000-lb DD on Hawk HPS.

S calipers and good pads is a setup that is hard to beat. Porsche could have put anything on the first Turbos (and wound up with 917/RSR calipers when they uprated to 3,3 liters) but they didn't see the need...

And good, fresh fluid.

[TorqueJunkie]

I am going to keep my Alloy S calipers for now and reseal them and see why they are locked up. Will look into more modern pads. Had perf. Friction Z rated pads in there and they worked fine 10 years ago...cant believe it has been that long without my 914....

[J P Stein]

A good addition to S calipers is a set of Stainless steel pistons. The stock steel ones corrode over time.
Pelican carries Stromski's or buy them direct. Not cheep but very worthwhile.

http://www.stomskiracing.com/

[brant]

and I've had good luck with the Pagid 4S street pads on street teeners.
I'm a big fan of cool carbon on race teeners

a lot of what you read on the internet regarding pads and porsches are really for heavier cars. the KFP (cool carbon's new name) work really well on cars below 2500lbs

it depends on tire adhesion and weight
but the S calipers can be really really effective when everything is dialed in.
Make sure your tires (10years old) are upgraded too.

[TorqueJunkie]

I have stainless pistons in them. Car sat out and was fine until I brought it in. I did apply the brakes to stop as we pulled it in, but now fronts are frozen. Hope to get up to my warehouse and get them apart this week. I was digging through all my brake parts and I have 18 sets of NOS brake pads for the alloy S calipers. The good ones that they cannot make any more...wink. I have enough pads to last me for a while.

It is amazing how much a person can forget in 10 years of racing and working on other vehicles. I sure miss the 914. I am determined to have it up and running by the end of the year.

[J P Stein]

I have stainless pistons in them. Car sat out and was fine until I brought it in. I did apply the brakes to stop as we pulled it in, but now fronts are frozen. Hope to get up to my warehouse and get them apart this week. I was digging through all my brake parts and I have 18 sets of NOS brake pads for the alloy S calipers. The good ones that they cannot make any more...wink. I have enough pads to last me for a while.

It is amazing how much a person can forget in 10 years of racing and working on other vehicles. I sure miss the 914. I am determined to have it up and running by the end of the year.

I would guess that the caliper seals are toast after sitting for the 10 years. They also act to retract the pistons. All the rubber stuff is in the rebuild kit, IIRC.

[brant]

I think you will find that the modern carbon pads are MUCH MUCH better than the old DS11's and asbestos based pads.

I still have a set of the "good old ones" and the difference in back to back driving is significant

brant

[naro914]

just to add to this, I have 993 rear calipers on the front of both my race and Targa cars, stock carrera rears on the back. I really like the brake feel - feels like my 993 street car, and can out-brake anyone on the track. No fade, no heat problems, nothing. Use Hawk Blue for racing, straight Porsche/Mintex for street.

Rotors are stock from the 5 lug Carrera set up I took them off of. (yes, my wheel wells could use some cleaning up)