Bellows wire on a 2.0L, What position? Options

[avidfanjpl]

I noticed that the wire from the bellows to the flaps came loose, did not break, but it is pointing up from the port through the engine tin.

Does anyone have a picture of what position the bellows wire attaches to the flap spring clamp?

I just cannot find a pic, but the wire is intact. Not sheared or frayed. Just damn came out when I finally got the car warmed up on Friday. I am still paying for getting stuck in traffic, but the car DID NOT overheat. It got to absolutely normal operating temp, but I am not sure how the flaps worked loose. I have other problems that will be fixed this weekend, but the flaps thing surprised me.

I loosened the bolt and it is ready to reinsert, but how tilted should the flaps be?

Maybe not at all? Does the bellows expand or contract when warmed up?

I think expand, but how does that work with the flaps?

Even written hints are better than what I know at this point.

Thanks!

John
avidfanjpl

[Tom_T]

Hey John - all materials expand with heat, so the bellows expanding should push or pull the wire/cable to open the flaps & allow cooling air into the engine cooling airflow as ducted by the tins.

Here's a pic & text from the factory manual #1 - but not much details on "how to"!


Maybe the Pelican tech section has a better step by step?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[type47]

Cooling flaps fail in the fully warmed up position so it doesn't overheat. The cable is installed with the flaps against the spring tension (hard to explain), that is, with the engine cold, you rotate the flaps against the spring tension then install the cable under a clamping nut and yes, it does take 3 hands; one to hold the flaps against the tension, one to hold the cable in position and one to tighten the nut with a wrench!

[flipb]

Minor (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hijacked.gif) ...

My 2.0 was missing all of the cooling hardware when I bought it. I obtained a used set, including a used thermostat.

It works perfectly when warming up, but the flaps don't retract as the engine cools. It seems as though the cable is catching on something and holding the thermostat bellows in the extended position. When I tap on the cable or the flaps (after the engine has cooled a bit), it snaps shut.

Is there someplace that the cable typically "hangs"? Or does this sound more like a problem with my thermostat?

[detoxcowboy]

Minor (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hijacked.gif) ...

My 2.0 was missing all of the cooling hardware when I bought it. I obtained a used set, including a used thermostat.

It works perfectly when warming up, but the flaps don't retract as the engine cools. It seems as though the cable is catching on something and holding the thermostat bellows in the extended position. When I tap on the cable or the flaps (after the engine has cooled a bit), it snaps shut.

Is there someplace that the cable typically "hangs"? Or does this sound more like a problem with my thermostat?

follow the cable it is very short but it does thread 2 overlay tin sections..,

[detoxcowboy]

Cooling flaps fail in the fully warmed up position so it doesn't overheat. The cable is installed with the flaps against the spring tension (hard to explain), that is, with the engine cold, you rotate the flaps against the spring tension then install the cable under a clamping nut and yes, it does take 3 hands; one to hold the flaps against the tension, one to hold the cable in position and one to tighten the nut with a wrench!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) takes 3 hands and imagination of the cable loosening the spring tension by lengthening about 1/2 an inch or so when warmed up through expansion of the bellows.. ...

[type47]

It works perfectly when warming up, but the flaps don't retract as the engine cools. It seems as though the cable is catching on something and holding the thermostat bellows in the extended position. When I tap on the cable or the flaps (after the engine has cooled a bit), it snaps shut.

Did your parts include those little "bearings/bushings" for the rod to fan shroud pivots? NLA as I recall. You could check the wheel/roller to see if it's free.

[flipb]

It works perfectly when warming up, but the flaps don't retract as the engine cools. It seems as though the cable is catching on something and holding the thermostat bellows in the extended position. When I tap on the cable or the flaps (after the engine has cooled a bit), it snaps shut.

Did your parts include those little "bearings/bushings" for the rod to fan shroud pivots? NLA as I recall. You could check the wheel/roller to see if it's free.

I do have the plastic bushings that the rod pivots in. Looking at the photo above in the thread, it looks like there should be some kind of washer - maybe something with a rounded edge - where the wire passes through the cooling shroud. I think I'm missing that - IIRC, my wire just passes through a hole in the tin.

Am I damaging the thermostat? I worry that the wire hanging up puts tension on the thermostat as it tries to retract. I always try to remember to pop the engine cover after driving, and come back after about five minutes to flip the flaps closed.

[McMark]

I'm a little confused, so I'll just try the shotgun approach to answering.

The flaps should be spring loaded and if there is a failure (cable breaking, etc) they should snap to the fully open position which is the correct position for hot engine driving. In this position the motor will take a bit longer to warm up, but won't overheat. Some people lock the flaps into the open position and toss the thermostat, but the flaps should never be omitted.

The thermostat isn't really a thermostat. It doesn't cycle on and off, open and closed. It simply warms up slowly, and then doesn't cool off again until the motor stops and sits for awhile.

To make the flaps operate correctly, first check your thermostat cold. It should be compressed tight. If it's not compressed when it's cold, then following this procedure will cause problems. Once you've checked that your thermostat bellows are functional, you need to route the cable around the small wheel under cylinder #2, then up through the tin near the dipstick. There is a hole there, and from the factory there is a small fiber washer, but that part isn't really critical. It's just another air seal that most people are missing. To attach the cable, you need to simultaneously press the mounting tab on the flapper rod down, while threading the cable into place and then tightening the nut. Not easy.

If you attach the cable as mentioned above, but your thermostat is failed (expanded all the time) then your cable will never get longer and the flaps will never open, and you will overheat your motor since the flaps block all the cooling air from getting to the cylinders and the oil cooler.

[type47]

..., it looks like there should be some kind of washer - maybe something with a rounded edge - where the wire passes through the cooling shroud. I think I'm missing that - IIRC, my wire just passes through a hole in the tin.

Yes, the is a little grommet that may be NLA but quite frankly, if it was me, I'd cut a little 1 cm diameter circle out of an old inner tube (or whatever thin rubber like the liner that they sell for shower floors), poke a hole in the center and call it good.

[avidfanjpl]

Thanks EVERYONE!

I am growing a 3rd arm to get this done over the weekend. Changing plugs and wires too. W7CC is what I hear, and I have the gap in the green book, but Tom T says I have halfsheimers. I only remember 1/2 of anything any more.

AND THANKS TOM FOR THE EXCELLENT PICTURE!

Steve Gaglione went out of his way to describe this last night too!

Thanks, Steve! He is away on his 30th anniversary. I know Janie put up with a lot of his toothbrush antics in that time.

Strangely enough, I have to lay on my back because I have an ear infection.

So, the garage floor with an old floor mat is going to actually be how I make sure the bellows is not failed in fully expanded mode.

I have a little hinged mirror and a snake light.

I am officially dangerous.

THANK YOU ALL!

John

[avidfanjpl]

UPDATE to all my helpers on 914 World!!!

The cable did snap about 1/2 inch from the end. I was fixing all kinds of things I have screwed up tonight and there was a little piece stuck in the plate behind the tightening bolt.

Yes, the remaining wire is just a little too short.

I ordered 2 from Pelican tonight. The bellows looks tight, so it is just getting under the car and snaking my hand into the bellows area to remove the broken wire and install a new one, build a grommet and reconnect it.

Anyone ever done a wire removal and install with the motor in the car? I am not even sure I can get to it from underneath.

I have to look for pics, and I will start in the green book.

Thanks again!

John
avidfanjpl

[BiG bOgGs]

Just drop it down through from the top. Thats how id did it on my install.

[detoxcowboy]

here is the link to the unimportant grommet you can buy,,

http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/...ory=&page=2

the wire attaches to the thermostat via a uniquie wire intendend coupler 9mm..

you will have to take the old one off the bellows..

this is one easy job,

[underthetire]

And the cable is available at Walmart in the bike section.

[Gint]

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...f=5&t=30107

[avidfanjpl]

Thanks for the info and pointers!

And for the funny Walmart wisecrack!

My first LOL for today!

2 from Pelican on their way. I get 1 day service if they get the order to SoCal on Friday.

I missed this weekend.

J

[underthetire]

Thanks for the info and pointers!

And for the funny Walmart wisecrack!

My first LOL for today!

2 from Pelican on their way. I get 1 day service if they get the order to SoCal on Friday.

I missed this weekend.

J

No wisecrack at all. 3.99 at walmart. Derailer cable. Comes with a end on each side, pick the one that matches and chop the other off. Don't forget to re-adjust after a week or so with any cable.

[avidfanjpl]

Shut my mouth!

Does it have the one threaded end?

With the one threaded bolty thing?

J

Thanks for the info and pointers!

And for the funny Walmart wisecrack!

My first LOL for today!

2 from Pelican on their way. I get 1 day service if they get the order to SoCal on Friday.

I missed this weekend.

J

No wisecrack at all. 3.99 at walmart. Derailer cable. Comes with a end on each side, pick the one that matches and chop the other off. Don't forget to re-adjust after a week or so with any cable.

[underthetire]

That bolty thing just unscrews and the cable comes out of it. When you get your new one from the bird, it will be a bare cable to I think.

I may have pics somewhere of it. I did it 2 years ago or so and others here have been doing that for longer than i've been driving. Thats a long time. I have over a million miles on my combined cars.