Real "race" tires vrs. "DOT" race/auto-x tires?? Options

[Demick]

It's really not any safer (a well run autox is a very safe environment regardless). But I do think you will learn faster. With street tires you will reach the limits of the car sooner. They will also provide better feedback in many ways. They 'let go' fairly gently (competition tires tend to let go pretty abruptly) so it is easier to drive a car at it's limits with street tires than it is with competition tires (I disagree with JP on this point). This allows you to learn how the car behaves at it's limits. In my opinion, it's also helpful in setting up the car. Oversteer and understeer are likely to be more pronounced with the street tires.

Besides, it's really fun (although not fast) to go slipping and sliding around the course. Carrying a controlled power-on 4 wheel drift for 100 feet or more is REALLY fun - and something you are only likely to do on street tires.

Demick

[Scott Carlberg]

Truthfully Mike, I'd encourage you to simply run street tires for the first year or so. You won't be competetive anyway for 2 reasons:

1. It takes awhile to get the car handling sorted out and to your liking
2. You need to learn how to drive (no offense intended). Being a 'good driver' on the street doesn't mean crap when it comes to the autox course. Being competetive at the autox simply takes some experience and time behind the wheel.

I think that you learn much faster how the car handles at its limits with street tires. This is helpful both in sorting out the car's handling as well as your learning how the car handles. I ran for 3 seasons on street tires before making the transition to DOT-R tires.

Yes, you will be faster with DOT-R tires, but since you aren't likely to be competetive either way (at first), you might as well save the $700 and learn on street tires. Besides, it's always a convienant excuse as to why you aren't competetive! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Demick

isn't Mr Demick a GREAT part of the 914world.com???


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[Demick]

Hey Scott - when are we going to see you show up at an autocross? There's one this Saturday at Alameda - which is the best venue in the entire Bay Area.

Demick

[Scott Carlberg]

I don't really care for autocrossing, I did it 20yrs ago when I had a Black 2.0

I liked the *flow* of de/time-trialing alot better.


To me, auto-x is...
Press the gas as hard as you can, and then the Brakes as hard as you can.
Repeat.

I just didn't enjoy it, I guess I should try it again.

[Mueller]

hey Scott,

I too thought auto-x was basicly like a light switch...on/off
stab,steer,stab..etc...etc...a pretty much mindless task


but now learning more about how to drive and the car, I found out that auto-x can be more of a mental challange and it makes me really think what I am doing and what the car is doing and why...

I'm not sure if I'm alone or not, but I enjoy the conversation I have with my myself while out there on the course.."slow down, hit the gas...turn, too much, correct...easy on the gas, now hard on the gas, lift........did I beat my last time?, did I beat Brad???" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/MDB2.gif)

[ChrisReale]

Mike,
do you still have 4 lug wheels? If so you can try my panasports with Vracers on them. I AX'ed with street tires for a few events and it really sucked (the tires did as well, better tires would have yielded better results) . VRacers are great in my opinion. They last, are affordable....

[Mueller]

thanks for the offer Chris...one little problem...my car is 4x100 bolt pattern (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

so your rims wouldn't bolt up to my car............

[1973914]

Would definitely "steer" away from the Pilot Cup Sports, as they are really designed for heavier cars like the 993 or 996. We had a tech session last month and the Michelin guys were there showing off the newest version to us track junkies. I mentioned something about heavier cars and they pretty much flat out agreed that a 2kish lb car is not the best platform for running those tires.

Great advice on the driver/tire progression so far!

[JoshuaSkinner]

Hoosier rain tires were not DOT certified as the tread was hand cut!

I agree that decent street tires are a very good starting point for autocross. Especially if they don't have a bunch of tread. Ask me about auto crossing a Mercury Grand Marquis rental if you want to know about tearing tread off the outside of a tire. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif)

Street tires that have decent recovery can teach one a lot about car control. With sticky tires you can end up going so fast that if you make a mistake you pay for it right then and there and the opportunity for learning is gone or greatly diminished. This is why skid control is taught on slick surfaces. Things happen more slowly and you have time to learn the proper behavior.

Kumho Victoracers are quite sturdy for an R compound tire. Once you are ready to move up from street tires I say start there. They work well on the car in my Avatar and that thing weighs >3200lbs with me on board.

Joshua Skinner

[Bleyseng]

Jump in to the Kuhmos, if you are going to learn how to drive an AX then go for the sticky tires. Street tires are ok to learn on if you have a stock suspenion but if the car is set up at all go for it. Its the same learning curve its just more fun on Kuhmos as you won't spin out quite so much.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Geoff

[airsix]

Hey Mike. You've already autocrossed at least a few times and attended a school didn't you? I don't think competency is an issue. I'd say it's a toss-up. Personal choice. You'll have fun either way. I'd probably base the decision between street or race rubber on the number of events you think you'll do each year. If you're sure you'll run enough events to justify it go for the race tires. Otherwise I'd stick with good street rubber and save the garage space.

I would like to have race rubber, but it's fun even with my old Dunlops. Here's a clip of one of my runs two weeks ago at the drivers school the local club did. It was fun (duh!) and I learned a lot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) See, even anemic 1.7's can have a good time! My point is, either way you'll have a good time. It's just plain fun any way you cut it.

-Ben M.