EMPI 009 w/40 deg. advance? Options

[Kevins911]

So I was looking for some dizzy options to replace the 009 I currently have and came across this EMPI brand modified 009 with 40 deg. of advance http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?Prod...=C13%2D9430%2DB I'm running dual DRLA 36's with an Eagle cam 278 deg. .410 lift and Euro pistons. I would like to move to an SDS setup eventually (spark and fuel). I dont want to spend a bunch of $$ on a dizzy if I'm just going to replace it, and this fits the bill at only $50, but I also don't want to waste my money if this is junk. Any opinions on this? Anyone running one of these?

Cheers
Kevin

[Root_Werks]

Use the search function, there are 2-3 really good threads on this subject.

Pretty much all "009"s are junk. They are an on/off switch for advance.

If your carbs have a vaccum port, use it, get a stock 1.8 L-Jet dist, it'll run much, much, much, much better than any 009.

IMO the best order of dist's would be:

Bosch 022 - No vac - dual wieghts, stock on late 356's and early 912's designed for carbs

1.8 L-Jet dist - vac

Bosch 050 - No vac - dual wieghts, aftermarket.

New VW SVAD (??) - vac - you can buy these new for $100 or so

010's, eh, old school Porsche stuff, still kind of an on/off switch, not much better than the 009

[McMark]

You usually only need about 16 degrees of mechanical advance. Also, be aware of how fast/slow the advance comes on.

[Cevan]

My L-Jet has 22 degrees of total advance.

[Root_Werks]

You usually only need about 16 degrees of mechanical advance. Also, be aware of how fast/slow the advance comes on.

Exactly, why 99.99% of all 009's are junk. You stumble, stumble, stumble up to 2500rpms then 100% of the advance kicks in and the engine smooths out.

No thanks.

Dedicated track car where you'r always above the RPM mark and could care less about anything more than the full advance, okay, maybe a 009 would be fine. Street use, no way.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

BTW - I have an 050, 1.8 L-Jet and 022 dist's I'm swapping around on my carb'd 914 2.0 to experiment. The 022 so far is the best be a good margin followed closely by the 1.8 dizzy making even the 050 seem turdy. And the 050 was "wow, this is so much better than the 009!" when I first put it in.

[Mark Henry]

I'd go for the L-jet dizzy.
Brazil 009 had 28* and the German 009 at 24*. the german 009 was "ok" on the type one bug engine.

The 40* advance claim is just whacked, smoke an engine like Cheech and his joint in no time.

[charliew]

32-34 degrees total including initial timing. 28+4-6? 24+8-10? The svda is worth the expense, you can always sell it later as everybody wants one.

[Kevins911]

thanks for the info everyone!! I fired the engine up for the first time tonight...had a bit of a time to get it to idle right, after I got it idling I had no throttle, hit the accelerator pedal and it died, tweaked the dizzy a bit and it wanted to rev to outer space!! I shut it off before it hit 5000. I have to study up on the carbs tonight and get them set to a basic setting, but I think this 009 is gonna be a problem.

I have 3 replacement choices in mind right now:

the pertronix 009 style mech. advance with flamethrower module $143
http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?Prod...e=PER%2DD186604

the pertronix SVDA dizzy with flamethrower module $187
http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?Prod...e=PER%2DD186504

or the pertronix billet dizzy with ignition module $198
http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?Prod...e=PER%2DD186810

one of my carbs has a vaccum port, would it be good to get the other one drilled for one as well?

how well does the billet dizzy perform with out the vaccum port?

Cheers
Kevin

[tat2dphreak]

if you are seriously thinking about spending 200 on a dizzy, then get a mallory and be done with it.

that said a 205AA 1.8 Ljet dizzy will give you 32 and will run like a champ, even without the vac. port. a good carb should could put the vac. port into your carbs... that's how mine is done, and runs like a champ! and a 205AA dizzy will be much less than $200

[charliew]

The distributor didn't cause it to rev up. It sounds like maybe you are jumping around on too many different things without knowing what each one does. Work on one part at a time and study that part before you change things. A street motor needs a vaccum advance and mechanical advance distributor to be at it's optimum for ignition timing. Find out where the vaccum port that is above the butterflys is on the carbs. Do not use manifold vaccum (a port in the manifold or carb below the carb butterfly) for distributor vaccum operation.

Put timing marks where you can see them and try to use the 009 you have for starters. If it has 16 degrees advance built in you will need to set the initial timing to 10 degrees and it really still won't be enough but you don't know till you use a timing light and have timing marks to see. Probably the 009 will have about 20 degrees timing built in the mechanical advance so 7-10 initial will give 27-30 at 3500 rpm or so which won't be quite enough but you can't run more than 10 degrees without getting problems with starting when it's hot. Mechanical weighted advance is purely working on rpm, vaccum advance works off of the load on the motor. So both working together is as good as it gets with a mechanical distributor. You can use less initial timing so the motor will idle better and start better.

[Root_Werks]

Not to hijack but I do have a good 1.8 dizzy for $50 if you want.

Can holds a vac, should be plug and play. I've run it a couple of times.

Like my 022 best, so I'm keeping that.

[Mark Henry]

I built an engine for a local (now former) member, stock 2.0 and we put on it SDS fuel only and a L-jet dizzy. The rest was stock 2.0 FI. It purred like a kitten, you would swear it was stock. A guy from Chicago bought the car and drove it 26 hours home from Barrie, ON.
That was a few years ago, last I heard it was running fine.

Roots dizzy for $50 is a cheap price if you plan to ditch it later.

BTW the condition of the engine is important, the SDS will not compensate for a tired engine, might even make it worse.

[Mark Henry]

Since Root was a big enough skank to try and sell you a dizzy........ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Do you want to trade your core 3.0 heads for a complete D-jet intake with a TB and intake modified for SDS TPS and temp sender?
Get me a set of magnets from SDS and I'll give you the disc and mount plate for the crank trigger as well.
With intakes for 3 or 4 bolt heads.
PM me if you're interested.

[Kevins911]

I rebuilt the engine 3 years ago and it's been patiently waiting for me to finish the rest of the car, I got it running the other day and did the initial 20 min break in, but I had a little oil leak from one of my threaded galley plugs, pulled the engine today and fixed that.

Root, I think I'll take your dizzy, sending PM.

Mark, I don't need any more 2.0L FI stuff as I allready have 2 complete 2.0L D Jet systems plus extras. I might be interested in your parts when the time comes for my EFI upgrade, but right now I need the cash for my parts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif), make me an offer on those heads if you like.

Cheers
Kevin

[underthetire]

Always remember, EMPI=CRAP. Period.

[Root_Werks]

I rebuilt the engine 3 years ago and it's been patiently waiting for me to finish the rest of the car, I got it running the other day and did the initial 20 min break in, but I had a little oil leak from one of my threaded galley plugs, pulled the engine today and fixed that.

Root, I think I'll take your dizzy, sending PM.

Mark, I don't need any more 2.0L FI stuff as I allready have 2 complete 2.0L D Jet systems plus extras. I might be interested in your parts when the time comes for my EFI upgrade, but right now I need the cash for my parts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif), make me an offer on those heads if you like.

Cheers
Kevin

Kevin, got your PM, I'll see how much it is to send it your way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)