My Official 914 Restoration, The Black Beast is coming to life!!!! Options

[EdArango]

OK.....You guys must think I'm nutz by now!!

Over the last couple of weeks my son and I have decided to keep the car and begin re-doing it. As most of us I would love to have a 6 cyl. but cash and time is preventing me from moving forward with that idea.

What I think I'll do is clean this car us as much as I can, get the rust issues taken care of (see pics)....(I don't know the the PO was thinking, there is expansion foam in all the openings in the car, such as hell hole & pass. longs)..... upgrade the engine to 2056, leave it as a 4 lug but upgrade the suspension, add a front sway-bar, change out the A-arm bearings with the Elephant stuff and I think I'll be good to go for a while.

What do you guys think????????

ED

[914Sixer]

Nothing more than the usual places, SO far.

[EdArango]

Nothing more than the usual places, SO far.

So Mark....Are these hard fixes???? Should I continue looking for more rust??

Thanks!!

PS...Today is my 21st wedding anniversary...I'm sure my wife just loves seeing me on the computer talkin car junk... lol!

[EdArango]

On another subject....Did I ever show you guys what I bought her for Mother's Day???...........



What a great husband!!....lol!!!

ED

[Tom]

Ok, I'll bite. What are they?
Tom

[EdArango]

Ok, I'll bite. What are they?
Tom

We put them on our feet....some may know them as shoes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Porsche 917

[Tom]

LOL, too funny!
Tom

[Tom_T]

Ed - Man - I want my garage to look like yours someday!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
... if that is one of those Craftsman 33 gal 150 psi compressors - how do you like it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
They're on clearance sale now, & I'm thinking about getting one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Engine Thots -

Check out Jake Raby's MassIVe website (over in GA) & the website for FAT Performance here in Orange - both are noted Type IV engine builders.

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/

http://www.fatperformance.com/

If you want to go full bore hopped up, but stay "bolt in engine with minimal mods - then look at a 2270 cc with carbs, you can get 145+ hp & a ton more Torque - all at 200-300 lbs. LESS than a 6 (BTW - original 914-6 was only 110 hp & about the same torque as the 2.0 T-4 but at much higher rpm). It's all a matter of how much you want to spend, & how much the wife will allow! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Rust issues -

1. The foam & injection into the crevices was a factory measure thought to prevent the rust, but the porosity actually held the moisture & made it worse! So that was a DAF not a DAPO! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

2. Pull off your engine bay heat pad & check it for rust, since I can see that hole behind the pass. seat, & it's likely on the other side & all along the engine tray to firewall joint. Unfortunately our 73's & earlier 914s with the early engine lid rain trays would warp from the engine heat, then dump water onto the engine bay firewall heat/sound pad, & the sisal backing on that will hold moisture against the firewall until it rusts through - & it seems to collect at the bottom of the pad along the engine shelf there! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

3. Also pull off your steering rack cover pan & poke around up behind there - esp. where the steering cross-member struts are welded to the underpan, & it's usually worse on the pass. side due to past washer bottle/hose leaks draining down into the crevice below the tanks.

4. Other favorite rust hiding spots are: under that lovely factory foam, floor pan tar (IIRC you already did that) & seam sealer, around the windshield & sail/rollbar trim, under the outer door seals (esp. at the door bottoms), under the F trunk seal in the channel, under the headlights, at the horn, fog light & F&R bumper attachment points, F & R trunk floors, L&R rear door jambs, under the cowl seals, oh ..... & just about anywhere else! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

5. It looks like you'll need a major hell hole & pass long repair - so do the suspension console, longs, inner wheel well, battery tray/support, firewall, engine shelf(ves), jack tube/support, etc. all at the same time & fix it right from the git-go! Restoration Design has most/all parts for that, & are a member vendor here (may be a member discount at their posting.

Suspension & Wheel Thots -

If you're using it for street use or even AX, I don't know that Elephant is necessary, since the OEM bearings were pretty good & are still available (FAG is one OES for them still around today). My 73 2L had factory F & R sways which seemed to help in cornering a lot, so adding either factory or aftermarket sway(s) is a good idea, although some AXers & Racers say the rear sway is unnecessary. IMHO they help keep the car level in hard turns & not lift a wheel so much.

If you stay with 4 lug wheels, the Fuchs 2L are about 10 lbs. each & the Mahles & then Pedrinis are only a little more (someone weighed them & had a chart on here somewhere), & those being "factory issue" wheels for the 914 would meet their specs for stress in hard corners. That is - if you're looking to change wheels.

I've also heard some folks say that the later repop Rivieras are not as strong as those wheels, although I've had the old original 70's Rivs on mine since I bought it used back in 75 & never had any problem - so maybe the old originals aren't bad, but they may weigh more than the 3 factory wheels. Rivs were never a factory wheel, although many dealers would be happy to put them on a customer's 914, as with the Western/Gurney, Empi & other aftermarket wheels back in the day - for a price!

I can't tell which type you have on there, but the old Rivs had a smooth rim with no lip on it (to discourage the use of clamp-on balancing weights). FYI for your comparison - here's a pic of one of my original Rivs, still with the original Riv logo bullet caps, they're not heavily oxidized but rather are the brushed aluminum finish (rather than polished, not have they been cleaned since she went on blocks in my garage in 85)) -



Tires, well that's a whole nutha subject, & varies widely by your driving, use of the 914 on & off street, personal preferences & everybody's opinions are different!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[EdArango]

Ed - Man - I want my garage to look like yours someday!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
... if that is one of those Craftsman 33 gal 150 psi compressors - how do you like it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
They're on clearance sale now, & I'm thinking about getting one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Engine Thots -

Check out Jake Raby's MassIVe website (over in GA) & the website for FAT Performance here in Orange - both are noted Type IV engine builders.

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/

http://www.fatperformance.com/

If you want to go full bore hopped up, but stay "bolt in engine with minimal mods - then look at a 2270 cc with carbs, you can get 145+ hp & a ton more Torque - all at 200-300 lbs. LESS than a 6 (BTW - original 914-6 was only 110 hp & about the same torque as the 2.0 T-4 but at much higher rpm). It's all a matter of how much you want to spend, & how much the wife will allow! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Rust issues -

1. The foam & injection into the crevices was a factory measure thought to prevent the rust, but the porosity actually held the moisture & made it worse! So that was a DAF not a DAPO! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

2. Pull off your engine bay heat pad & check it for rust, since I can see that hole behind the pass. seat, & it's likely on the other side & all along the engine tray to firewall joint. Unfortunately our 73's & earlier 914s with the early engine lid rain trays would warp from the engine heat, then dump water onto the engine bay firewall heat/sound pad, & the sisal backing on that will hold moisture against the firewall until it rusts through - & it seems to collect at the bottom of the pad along the engine shelf there! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

3. Also pull off your steering rack cover pan & poke around up behind there - esp. where the steering cross-member struts are welded to the underpan, & it's usually worse on the pass. side due to past washer bottle/hose leaks draining down into the crevice below the tanks.

4. Other favorite rust hiding spots are: under that lovely factory foam, floor pan tar (IIRC you already did that) & seam sealer, around the windshield & sail/rollbar trim, under the outer door seals (esp. at the door bottoms), under the F trunk seal in the channel, under the headlights, at the horn, fog light & F&R bumper attachment points, F & R trunk floors, L&R rear door jambs, under the cowl seals, oh ..... & just about anywhere else! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

5. It looks like you'll need a major hell hole & pass long repair - so do the suspension console, longs, inner wheel well, battery tray/support, firewall, engine shelf(ves), jack tube/support, etc. all at the same time & fix it right from the git-go! Restoration Design has most/all parts for that, & are a member vendor here (may be a member discount at their posting.

Suspension & Wheel Thots -

If you're using it for street use or even AX, I don't know that Elephant is necessary, since the OEM bearings were pretty good & are still available (FAG is one OES for them still around today). My 73 2L had factory F & R sways which seemed to help in cornering a lot, so adding either factory or aftermarket sway(s) is a good idea, although some AXers & Racers say the rear sway is unnecessary. IMHO they help keep the car level in hard turns & not lift a wheel so much.

If you stay with 4 lug wheels, the Fuchs 2L are about 10 lbs. each & the Mahles & then Pedrinis are only a little more (someone weighed them & had a chart on here somewhere), & those being "factory issue" wheels for the 914 would meet their specs for stress in hard corners. That is - if you're looking to change wheels.

I've also heard some folks say that the later repop Rivieras are not as strong as those wheels, although I've had the old original 70's Rivs on mine since I bought it used back in 75 & never had any problem - so maybe the old originals aren't bad, but they may weigh more than the 3 factory wheels. Rivs were never a factory wheel, although many dealers would be happy to put them on a customer's 914, as with the Western/Gurney, Empi & other aftermarket wheels back in the day - for a price!

I can't tell which type you have on there, but the old Rivs had a smooth rim with no lip on it (to discourage the use of clamp-on balancing weights). FYI for your comparison - here's a pic of one of my original Rivs, still with the original Riv logo bullet caps, they're not heavily oxidized but rather are the brushed aluminum finish (rather than polished, not have they been cleaned since she went on blocks in my garage in 85)) -

Tires, well that's a whole nutha subject, & varies widely by your driving, use of the 914 on & off street, personal preferences & everybody's opinions are different!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

Tom!!!
You are a bank of knowledge!!!! You know I'm in HB so you've got to come over to my place to check out the car and have a beer.

Maybe next week if you can make it sometime after work or over the weekend>

Thanks man!!

ED
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Tom_T]

Tom!!!
You are a bank of knowledge!!!! You know I'm in HB so you've got to come over to my place to check out the car and have a beer.

Maybe next week if you can make it sometime after work or over the weekend>

Thanks man!!

ED
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Ed - I'd love to swing by sometime, but I'm on the push to finish stuff up & leave the 20th & will be out-of-town until 9/7 on biz etc.

Maybe come Sept. or Oct. I can come by?

Unfortunately much of the rust issues are due to finding them on my own 73 2L, after sitting 25+ years in my garage since it was smacked in 5/85 just a couple of years after a fresh rolling resto/rusto! .... & I thought it would just be a fix the accident damage thing to do now! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

You should come by Krispy Kreme at The Block on 3rd Sat. am 8:30-10+/- am for the local Porsche Club's Porsches & Doughnutz (in the parking lot). I know - more fun with the 914, but what the heck, there may just be another one there! They also have AX at El Toro, breakfast at Original Mike's in Santa Ana on 1st Sat. am's, & Pancakes & Porsches at Woody's Diner on Lido on 4th Sat am's. I haven't made many since I'm mostly working on my house, cars or 914 weekends.

[Spoke]

Porsche 917

In my eyes, this is the most beautiful sports car ever designed; thus my sig.


BTW, good luck with your car. You will find the rust if you look for it. I try to do little areas at a time so I can contain the mess. Fix the worst spots first. Have fun.

[Tom_T]

Hey Ed - Spoke/Jerry just pointed out that when you said: "...change out the A-arm bearings with the Elephant stuff...." - that you probably meant bushings - not wheel bearings as I thought you meant.

If you meant wheel bearings, FAG is still a good street choice.

However, if you meant the various F&R Suspension Bushings - then the question again comes back to street or AX/track use - or both, cuz the AX/track will give a harsher ride but better turning performance (& may bump you into a different class).

For street, I would've preferred to stay factory on my resto, but since most or all are now NLA, I went with the Weltmeister Street level bushings for all Susp. & Sway Bar connections, but nothing has been installed yet & my rusto/resto is a long way off - so I can't speak to hands-on ride quality & handling with them yet.

If you're looking for AX/Track or both, then I can't really speak as to whether Elephant, Weltmeister or any of the others are better, cuz I just don't know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Also, if your tie-rods are shot or heavily worn & in need of relpacement, then you might want to consider a Turbo Tie-rod Kit, but IMHO stick with the Lemforder (sp?) OEM Tie-rod kit - not the aftermarket cheaper one. I initially got the latter to save some dough, but neither I nor Hans (in HB) were impressed, so I sent them back & paid the extra for the Lemforder kit. Again not in, but so many on here speak highly of it, that I'm looking forward to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) with them! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

This website is often like asking 10 lawyers for their opinion & you get 100+ opinions, all usually with some validity given different circumstances & experiences! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[charliew]

Spoke I'm sorry but that is a nice race car, not a sportscar.

I still think you need to build a shop with a floor that can take hot metal falling on it if you are going to repair the rust yourself. I guess you could roll it out in the driveway and do the hot stuff and roll it back in but thats a lot of up and down and rolling back and forth. Don't forget the door gap supports when you start cutting the bad stuff out. From your pictures you should poke the screwdriver all along the bottom of the long from the jack point toward the rear and also the outer rear arm support bottom. You can do it and be proud of it when you are through.

[SirAndy]

Should I continue looking for more rust??

Do you really have to ask? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Andy

[strawman]

Hi Ed --

I'm in the latter end of a full body/chassis rustoration.

I would recommend carefully checking for rust and replace only what is necessary. From the pics you've provided, I don't believe you'll need to replace EVERYTHING in terms of inner/outer longs, firewall, suspension console, etc. as suggested by another poster -- just those items that show wear, tear and damage. And I would definitely scrape out that reisty foam added by the DAPO -- it will retain moisture and accelerate rust.

As you get deeper into the rustoration (if you so choose), you'll probably want to remove the factory foam in the upper-inner back corners of the rear quarters and under the upper-inner quarters just under the sail panels. It is a beeyotch to remove and you'll likely find at least surface rust under there, but it will forestall further rust damage if you remove the rust and repair the damage correctly.

I've also scraped out all of the seam sealant from my chassis, but I guess I'm just anal retentive and/or love punishment. I've replaced the factory seam sealant with 3M stuff, after removing what rust was underneath.

Geoff

[EdArango]

So Emilio and I got the engine out.

Now what??


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

[Tom_T]

Time for a cool one? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[EdArango]

It's been a while since I've posted...... So, needless to say I've currently enrolled in a welding class at the local community college. Take a look at these pics and give me your opinion.

Do you guys think this is salvageable???
Let me know!!

[EdArango]

[EdArango]