Got my car back..., along with a bendover bill Options

[bandjoey]

I've done the same in the past. I paid the bill, and learned. Live Long and Drive!

[bandjoey]

Sounds like one of my repair bills, I was going to get my car in the shop for a clutch and oil cooler, they said it would be $2000, I'm doing the clutch myself, still... the oil cooler will get done when I get some $$$$.

HI Jack...You can do it yourself with our help. I did this in about 3 hours..and I'm a dutz mechanic.

From Clay Perrine's write up on oil coolers:
(and there are pictures somewhere, too)




ON a type 4, you can remove the oil cooler WITHOUT removing the motor from the car, or removing the fan shroud. Changing the seals is a breeze...


Step 1.

Jack the car up so you can get under it easily....

Step 2.

Remove all the tin that blocks access to the lower side of the oil cooler.

Step 3.

Remove the bolts in the end of the fan housing that hold the support bracket for the oil cooler.

Step 4.

With a 10 mm socket, remove the nut that holds the inboard end of the oil cooler. This is the one on the short stud.

Step 5.

With a 10mm wrench, remove both the nuts that hold the cooler in place. These are the ones on the long studs.

Step 6.

Push the cooler forward up against the fan housing. You wil have about 2 inches between the cooler and it's mounting surface.

Step 7.

Knock the old seals down with a screwdriver.

Step 8.

Install the new seals by putting plain (not molygraph) wheel bearing grease on the mating surface. Then put a large dab of grease on the screwdriver blade and stick the seal to it. Using the screwdriver, push the seal into its mount point and then pull the screwdriver straight down. THis will scrape the seal from the end of the screwdriver, and leave the seal stuck to the case with the grease. Make sure that you do the upper seal first.

Reverse the disassembly directions for reassembly.



If you need to actually remove the oil cooler, after sliding it forward, use a pair of needle nose vice grips to unscrew the studs from the case. Then the cooler will come out when you remove the second long stud.

[william1764]

You got humped on the labor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) However, if they tuned it on a dyno maybe not. If they didn't that seems very high.

I dunno, good work isn't cheap but knowing the right people is worth every dollar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

No dyno work was performed eric

[charliew]

The mechanic talked to you long enough to know that you were not a 914 guru and that without a estimate you made a easy week for him. I would not go back to bother with him, he is not a honest mechanic and will always try to get more than the job is worth I'm sure. Sometimes on old cars a exact estimate is hard to do unless a exact procedure is done and other while your there items are passed over or discussed at the time and thats hard to do with some customers. These cars are not the type of car to take to a service facility unless you make more by the hour than the shop charges, they need too many small detail things that some customers will never know about until they break.

[sean_v8_914]

I mostly agree with Le crusted one although I would charge more than his estimate but less than your bill.
this is a tough call.
914s are a 35 yr old profit-eating CAN OF WORMS that most shops turn away and if they dont its because they dont know any better. and if they dont know better than they dont know the car and you pay for that.
hire a guy that is meticulous, knows 914s but takes his time to do it right but then you pay for the knowledge. these cars are falling into the realm of custom shop work.
every time I work on a modern Porsche I am reminded of how tough a 35 yr old cult car can be.
gas tank, fuel lines, center tunel, parking brakes and carbs all get tougher to deal with due to their rust issues.
I dont want to get into flaming another shop since I dont know what he ran into in your car. I can only relate my experience

dont be sick, enjoy your nice running car.

I also need to call BS. several non-pro-wrench turning world members like to quote low labor times. I speculate this makes them feel more competent when others read that they can adjust valves, change oil and tune a carb in 30 minutes or change oil cooler seals in an hour. the typical joe will take over an hour to change out plugs and wires.

[PeeGreen 914]

The mechanic talked to you long enough to know that you were not a 914 guru and that without a estimate you made a easy week for him. I would not go back to bother with him, he is not a honest mechanic and will always try to get more than the job is worth I'm sure. Sometimes on old cars a exact estimate is hard to do unless a exact procedure is done and other while your there items are passed over or discussed at the time and thats hard to do with some customers. These cars are not the type of car to take to a service facility unless you make more by the hour than the shop charges, they need too many small detail things that some customers will never know about until they break.

WOW.... just because the cost is high I wouldn't say this mechanic is dishonest or anything else. I would say he is very expensive but that sums it up. Some mechanics are use to working on cars that people can through money at without blinking. Many of those owners have Ferraris and Porsches. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I would just suggest live and learn. You may talk to him if you feel it is high and mention it to him to see what he says. He may clarify why it cost so much. At any rate, learn from it and go to another shop. Lord knows we have all made mistakes.

[RJMII]

Bovey? they have Ferarris or Porsches? What do we have, VW's? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[william1764]

All good points and very much appreciated. Many lessons learned...thanks to all

[PeeGreen 914]

Bovey? they have Ferarris or Porsches? What do we have, VW's? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

You have a VWPorsche (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

not of the 911 turbo pocket book..... generally (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[FourBlades]

Just get out and enjoy your car and don't worry about it. These cars are worth the
money in driving fun factor.

I spent $20,000+ on restoring my car before driving it the first time.

It was worth it and I plan to enjoy it every time for a long time to come.

John

[tomh]

Just get out and enjoy your car and don't worry about it. These cars are worth the
money in driving fun factor.

I spent $20,000+ on restoring my car before driving it the first time.

It was worth it and I plan to enjoy it every time for a long time to come.

John

You got off easy compared to me.If I would have known about this forum befor takeing my car in I would have saved 5,000 however I got a 2.0 now with a side shifter and I love it

[avidfanjpl]

Hey Bill,

Don't feel bad. I have spent hundreds of hours in the last year doing everything myself except for detailing the underbody and timing the car.

Now I will do the timing myself, but a glaze and a detailing is still good at 250.

I spent 30 hours last week alone on things. But I have done a ton of stuff, and 914World is the reason I have not shot the car and myself.

I have some things I cannot do, like rebuild the engine or align the car, or reweld in the 2 jackplates and tubes in. I do the paint, all the maintenance, and have changed dozens of things on the car each month with NOS or new. I did the clutch cable Sunday. PITA, but now I know how.

So what? Engines and alignments are two things that are infrequent. Everything else, even at 58, I am doing. May take longer, but I don't charge myself for the time, and I know more after 6 914's and being here since April, than at any time ever in 35 years of pissing time away on these lovely discontinued things.

Tomorrow are 2 inboard CV joint installs, then put the heat exchangers and muffler back on. Then the welding, powdercoating valances and rockers, and going for a drive by the weekend. You name it, one of us have changed or fixed it, and some things several times!

Good luck, and hold on to your dough. I even have a dwell/tach and timing light now.

John

[Spoke]

Sorry to hear about your high repair bill although I'm not surprised. There are a lot of expert mechanics out there who do a great job for a good price. And we all know there are the guys who shouldn't be in the biz but are. Sometimes it's difficult to figure out who is who.

Chalk it up to experience and move on. This is why I do as much work on all my cars as possible. It's time consuming but also rewarding. For example, the Audi dealer just quoted me more than $1000 to replace 2 upper control arms on my A4. Parts that I can procure for about $200 and do it myself.

Timing belt change on the A4 garners repair costs that I've heard of from $1500 to $2500 where the parts only cost about $250. So it took me all day to change the timing belt and my hands were dirty. I saved a pile of cash.

Good luck with your 914 and remember always to break out the tools and do it yourself. Ask questions here and as mentioned before, a beer and BBQ is a lot more cost effective and fun than a $3000 repair bill.

[SUNAB914]

I 've spent less than $3000.00 on each of my two 914 restorations. Buy a good tool box of metric tools and ask here.

[carr914]

Another suggestion. Since your having the popping problem, now is the time to go back and talk to the mechanic. At $3K, your car should be perfect. Let's see how he addresses the pricey bill & handles warranty work.

T.C.

[ChrisFoley]

Bill, you were seriously hosed on the fuel system labor.
Even if he installed a new stainless steel tunnel line it should have been within a day's labor to replace everything.
Either he doesn't know his way around 914s or he picked you as an easy mark to help pay for his sailboat.

[scotty b]

You've got 4-5 of us that do this for a living that are saying you were screwed. Take this thread to him and point that out. Should be interesting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[realred914]

You've got 4-5 of us that do this for a living that are saying you were screwed. Take this thread to him and point that out. Should be interesting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

\


yeah you should complain to him, scotty B has a point, both hobbyists and professinals are seeing a bad bill here. see if the mechanic can explain himself ont his one. if he dont come down, take it to the authorities, you may have some right to recovery if your verbal agreement was to specific to not be above a thousand bucks


fought a simular case for an elderly couple near me, 1966 VW Bug and they had a $1800 clutch replacement at midas! (it is only about $150 in parts!, and a few hours labour at all of the near by competitors) the clutch was not replaced but they billed for it, they also billed all kinds of unneeded stuff. took the old man (WWII Okanawa Vet) who is getting forgetful for a ton of money, The shop read this customer and figured he had money, figured he was a bit gullable (alzhemeres) and took him for a huge sum, we wrote a letter to the consumer protection board and he got a huge refund from the shop and they got a scolding.

i suggest you do like wise, these charges seem totally out of line.

when i pay high labour rates i expect expert service from knowledgable folks that work efficrntly and swift. if the worker is on a learning curve on the car, either he needs to discount his hours or labour rate to compensate for his learning time

If it is true that old cars have more hidden issues that increase the labour over estimate, thoose "hidden" issues should be itemized and accounted for on the final bill, with authoriaztion required for any work exceeding an agreed limit. thats how it should be done in cases of hidden issues.

face it some shop size up the customer, figure how much money they have, and how gullible they might be, then they adjust their billng scheme accordingly. I have fallen victum to that myself, I hear about it often from other. neighbor went to get oil change nice 60ish lady in a Accord, the worker comes in to the waiting room with a dirty air filter, told her her air filter needed replacement, she asked how much, he tolder her $30, now she knows what a filter costs about $10 at kragen, so she declines, so she'd do it herself (she only had the oil changed by a shop, as she was in a hurry else she'd do it herself, she knows cars a bit more than average!)

at any rate she goes buys the filter at kragen, takes her old one out and finds it is not only perfectly clean, but it is a different shape/size than the one that worker showed her. RIP OFF happens daily!

[william1764]

Bill, you were seriously hosed on the fuel system labor.
Even if he installed a new stainless steel tunnel line it should have been within a day's labor to replace everything.
Either he doesn't know his way around 914s or he picked you as an easy mark to help pay for his sailboat.

Chris - Maybe a bit of both i think

[william1764]

Another suggestion. Since your having the popping problem, now is the time to go back and talk to the mechanic. At $3K, your car should be perfect. Let's see how he addresses the pricey bill & handles warranty work.

T.C.

I plan to...particuarly if the gaskets don't solve the problem.