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> Ick....my compression ratio is low!!!, Motor will be "boring" until turbo'd
Mueller
post Apr 9 2003, 05:20 PM
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If I figured everything out correctly, my static compression ratio is 7.7:1 as of now....I wanted to run the .060" copper head gaskets to help seal the cylinders while under boost, but those will drop it down to 6.9:1 compression...talk about anemic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I'm only a few weeks away from having the motor back in the car and running, but the turbo install will take a few months I'm guessing...I don't want to drop the motor again to remove the heads to install the gaskets at time of turbo install, so I guess I'll have to live with a sluggish compression ratio until boost can be applied...

my numbers if anyone wants to double check my figures:
deck height=2.18mm (without .060" gasket)
bore=94mm
stroke=71mm
Combutsion Camber CC's=58.17


For some good news....my 16*7 rims with 205/45/16's have been ordered
The rims weigh the same as the same size 16*7 Fuch= 18 pounds...not too bad
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Brad Roberts
post Apr 9 2003, 11:06 PM
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So.. why the copper head gasket ? There is a wire that the turbo guy's use in there heads/cylinders. I forget the name of it.. but its a phone call away. It expands with heat helping to seal the cylinder to the head. Similar to "O" ringing the heads on a SBC, but this material grows. I think the 993 Twin Turbos ran this stuff. Can we buy copper head gaskets for our 94's ??


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Mueller
post Apr 10 2003, 12:11 AM
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The copper gaskets are available in 93/94/96mm, or 103/105mm sizes.

I've tried to find the "fire ring" gaskets but it seems to be a generic term.
O-rings made of copper are sometimes used on watercooled cars.
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Brad Roberts
post Apr 10 2003, 12:16 AM
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I cant call him.. but you could... Call Todd Knighton at Protomotive. Ask him flat out what the best material is to use for a air cooled Turbo (unless you have determined copper is the way to go). I know how Bontempi seals his 12.5:1 engines. It requires machining the cylinders and heads.


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Brad Roberts
post Apr 10 2003, 12:18 AM
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One more thing..

Is .060 the thinnest you can get ?? I would take .040 off the cylinders (heads cost to much to F-up) to get some of the .060 back.


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tryan
post Apr 10 2003, 11:50 AM
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nirosist ring?
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Mueller
post Apr 10 2003, 11:52 AM
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I found a direct source that has them in the following thickness ranges:

.022,.032,.040,.043,.048".054,.063,.070, .086, .093, and .125 inches.

Copper Head Gaskets

$15 each

I'm ordering the .022" thinkness and should have them early next week.
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jonwatts
post Apr 10 2003, 12:17 PM
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Geez that's expensive. If they want to charge that much they should at least say they are copper covered titanium.
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Brad Roberts
post Apr 10 2003, 12:19 PM
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YES Tryan ! Nirosist. That is was what I was thinking of.

Mike... help me out. Tell me why you think the copper will work.

I feel your holding something out on me.


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Mueller
post Apr 10 2003, 12:20 PM
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Still a little cheaper than aircooled.net which wanted 22.50 each for them.

With items like this, I'm glad I only have 4 cylinders to deal with....
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Brad Roberts
post Apr 10 2003, 12:49 PM
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Answer my question....!!!

Throwing a titty fit.


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Mark Henry
post Apr 10 2003, 02:28 PM
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Evil Ed has them on his heads. I think it's one of those "they say" type of deals. They say it seals better.

I also would like to know the thinking behind this.

Wouldn't it squish then be the cause of a leak after a few cycles?
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Mueller
post Apr 10 2003, 03:19 PM
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I've got the skinny on the Nirosist (nickel compound) .....old school 935 technology.

The way to go is to use aluminum sealing rings with the head and the cylinder machined to create a step. Correct expansion rates, plus it's mechanically "fixed" in place.

I called Promotive, nice guy (cannot remember if it was Todd or not)...he is building a 3.8 twin turbo, twin plugged monster motor for his 914.

Copper gaskets suck according to him, but better than nothing and much cheaper than the $320 a set he gets for aluminum rings...shit, I've got a CNC, what the "f" am I bitching about? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)


I'll run the copper for now, I've got enough projects to keep me busy.
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Brad Roberts
post Apr 10 2003, 03:36 PM
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OK. Cheaping out. I now understand fully.

Yes Mark, that is exactly what they will do. (Squish and leak later) UNLESS he runs the good head studs (but he is cheap).

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Mueller
post Apr 10 2003, 03:39 PM
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Better head studs? I didn't know they exsisted? I thought nothing was available nut/stud/bolt wise for our motors.

Point me in the right direction oh-wise-one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Brad Roberts
post Apr 10 2003, 03:45 PM
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Your joking right ???

Raceware... ARP.... The aluminum cylinder guys.

Come on Mikey.


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Mueller
post Apr 10 2003, 04:10 PM
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Okay....on order and to be delivered next week:

ARP Thru-case bolt kit and ARP Head Stud Kit....


$400...ouch...this supposedly cheap 4 banger is getting expensive....


Now, any secrets to removing the old head studs and threading in the new ones? Should I timesert the case for the head studs?

I hope I sell some more needle bearing kits at the SSI swapmeet (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Oh yea....got access to Tony's shop?.....I need 10 pieces at 11.90.......please
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Brad Roberts
post Apr 10 2003, 04:25 PM
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I have the tube from the last batch we ran. I can cut them on the Caltenbach.

I want you to do this engine correctly. Dont even think half ass around me. You have kicked ass on these other projects.. dont slack on your own.


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Brad Roberts
post Apr 10 2003, 04:26 PM
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The head studs will come out by applying a *little* heat to the block end. I would clean the threads out, but the ARP's screw right into the block. The RaceWare HS use a insert that they come with.

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Mark Henry
post Apr 10 2003, 04:45 PM
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QUOTE(Mueller @ Apr 10 2003, 02:10 PM)
Okay....on order and to be delivered next week:

ARP Thru-case bolt kit and ARP Head Stud Kit....


$400...ouch...this supposedly cheap 4 banger is getting expensive....



I hear you Mike

I'm still on the fence, to turbo or N/A Decisions, decisions!?!?!?!

I've gotta make up my mind, if I want to go turbo I want the crankfire Ignition. If I stick with the N/A I'll just use my Mallory.

What am I going to do, ah, lets see what's today? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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