Front end changeover in progress..., 8/8- Alignment woes Options

[jk76.914]

I'm finally getting rid of the 4-to-5 lug adapters and doing a real Porsche 5 lug front suspension. Contrary to normal practice, which is normal for me, I guess, I'm installing real 914/6 struts with new Bilstein inserts. I bought the parts about 5 years ago on eBay, and the kit was all-inclusive, with freshly painted struts and new ball joints, bearings, rotors, pads, and brake hardware, and rebuilt M calipers. My excuse is I didn't know any better at the time, or I'd have looked for a later 911 set with the later bearing type, but alas, I own it now and everything is in real nice shape.

I think I'm good to go on parts and tools, but I'm trying to find out the torque requirement for the lock bolt for the ball joint. It's an M10 x 30mm x 1.5mm pitch, going into steel threads in the strut; presumably the lower part of the strut, below the tube, is forged.

Looks like an M10 grade 12.9 bolt is good for 50 ft-lbs, but I don't want to chance stripping out the threads. Nor do I want the BJ to pop because it's too loose. Does anyone know the torque spec? Thanks! Picture below-

PS- any tips for installing this type of strut? Thanks!

[ripper911]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif)
IDK

[ArtechnikA]

I think I'm good to go on parts and tools, but I'm trying to find out the torque requirement for the lock bolt for the ball joint. It's an M10 x 30mm x 1.5mm pitch, going into steel threads in the strut; presumably the lower part of the strut, below the tube, is forged.

Looks like an M10 grade 12.9 bolt is good for 50 ft-lbs, but I don't want to chance stripping out the threads. Nor do I want the BJ to pop because it's too loose.

The early 911 Spec Book calls for 6,5 mkp on the M10x30 ball joint bolt.

Since the bolt positively retains the ball joint as long as it is there, you don't really have to worry about it coming adrift. (You have the 'Old Style' ball joints with the round 'notch' - yes?)

The big problem with the pinchbolt ball joints is that the hole at the bottom of the strut wears and the fit gets sloppy; there is no fix for this other than new struts. So MAKE SURE you have a good tight fit.

(I have always thought it should be possible to ream the hole and install a sleeve, but this never materialized in the marketplace, so I have to conclude it was always cheaper to replace the struts than machine the sleeves.)

[jk76.914]

I think I'm good to go on parts and tools, but I'm trying to find out the torque requirement for the lock bolt for the ball joint. It's an M10 x 30mm x 1.5mm pitch, going into steel threads in the strut; presumably the lower part of the strut, below the tube, is forged.

Looks like an M10 grade 12.9 bolt is good for 50 ft-lbs, but I don't want to chance stripping out the threads. Nor do I want the BJ to pop because it's too loose.

The early 911 Spec Book calls for 6,5 mkp on the M10x30 ball joint bolt.

Since the bolt positively retains the ball joint as long as it is there, you don't really have to worry about it coming adrift. (You have the 'Old Style' ball joints with the round 'notch' - yes?)

The big problem with the pinchbolt ball joints is that the hole at the bottom of the strut wears and the fit gets sloppy; there is no fix for this other than new struts. So MAKE SURE you have a good tight fit.

(I have always thought it should be possible to ream the hole and install a sleeve, but this never materialized in the marketplace, so I have to conclude it was always cheaper to replace the struts than machine the sleeves.)

THANKS!! 6.5 mkp works out to 47 ft-lbs, which is pretty close to the 51-56 ft-lbs recommended for a 10.9 grad fastener. This means that the bolt is at least a 10.9 grade, which generically rates at 51-56 ft-lbs in steel. An 8.8 is only rated for 34-38 ft-lbs. (I said 12.9 originally, but I think I fat-fingered it.)

I have the right ball joints, and they're a smooth snug fit into the bore, which itself looks to be very clean and smooth, so I think I'm OK.


Thanks again!! Jim

[ArtechnikA]

...This means that the bolt is at least a 10.9 grade...

The bolt is specified as a 10,9 - check the headstamp.

[jk76.914]

...This means that the bolt is at least a 10.9 grade...

The bolt is specified as a 10,9 - check the headstamp.

That's more good information! I actually don't have the bolts. I bought the setup from someone who was going to do a 5-lug conversion (or maybe he was restoring a 914/6?) and must've changed his mind. But anyway these bolts were the only parts missing.
Thanks again! Jim

[jk76.914]

Picked up an official Bilstein gland nut wrench for my "new" front struts. Got it from Bilstein for only $4.60 plus shipping. And they threw in a set of logo stickers to wrap around the struts after I paint them John Deere green. I told them I needed the stickers so I can still advertise the Bilsteins after the part number sticker is inside the strut housing....

New hardware is on its way from McMaster-Carr and Pelican Parts....

[Eric_Shea]

Factory Manual = 47ftlbs.

My excuse is I didn't know any better at the time, or I'd have looked for a later 911 set with the later bearing type, but alas, I own it now and everything is in real nice shape.

Not following... you mean later ball joint? Those struts are fine. As long as your holes in the bottom are round you're good. 99.9% of them are fine. One article in Pano and the world thinks early pinch struts are all bad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Those are my favorite struts for a 914. Good choice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[jk76.914]

I lucked out. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Looking forward to having a tight steady front end again.

Jim

[ArtechnikA]

99.9% of them are fine. One article in Pano and the world thinks early pinch struts are all bad.

Maybe it was just the luck of the draw but I had two bad ones on one car at a time I really didn't need the expense of replacing two struts. (This was a long time ago, they are long gone now.)

There was a pair of those on my 911 and as soon as I can get the $%$## stuck ball joints, upper bearings, and tie rod ends out, I'll be glad to be rid of them. Especially now that they have been deemed 'highly prized' ;-)

[Eric_Shea]

OK... 98%

Just saying... T-Struts, pinch or pin are the perfect strut for a 914. Read the Excellence article on the 3 1970 911's and see what the writer says about the suspensions.

Need more brake? Brembo bolt-ons (and they're the lightest caliper I've ever found).

Need a different insert? Everyone makes a replacement.

Same vented rotor used on the 911 for almost 2 decades.

The days of the lowly "T" strut are gone. New "hero" in my book. I'll go with "highly prized" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Cap'n Krusty]

Picked up an official Bilstein gland nut wrench for my "new" front struts. Got it from Bilstein for only $4.60 plus shipping. And they threw in a set of logo stickers to wrap around the struts after I paint them John Deere green. I told them I needed the stickers so I can still advertise the Bilsteins after the part number sticker is inside the strut housing....

New hardware is on its way from McMaster-Carr and Pelican Parts....

$4.60 for a tool that comes in the box with the insert? After I had a box full, I tossed most of 'em ......................... At least you got some decals .............

The Cap'n

[jk76.914]

$4.60 for a tool that comes in the box with the insert? After I had a box full, I tossed most of 'em ......................... At least you got some decals .............

The Cap'n

Well, I bought those inserts back in '02 when the car was coming apart, and there was no wrench in my boxes. I didn't have access to elite team of experts back then. So anyway, I was glad to find it for only $4.60, but I guess I got taken for a ride. I've read a lot of threads talking about using big pliers or pipe wrenches, and I was thinking maybe I was letting folks in on something that could help them out.

[Eric_Shea]

Don't worry Jim... that's just our Cap'n. He's telling you he loves you in his own little way! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[jk76.914]

Don't worry Jim... that's just our Cap'n. He's telling you he loves you in his own little way! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'm not worried. I love my new wrench. I'm gonna sleep with it tonight.

[Eric_Shea]

I'm gonna sleep with it tonight.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) Let me know how that turns out. $4.60 might be a bargin!

[ArtechnikA]

Just saying... T-Struts, pinch or pin are the perfect strut for a 914.

For completeness, let's elaborate that when you say 'T' strut, you're actually saying 'M-caliper' (3" mount) strut. And probably with Boge insert threads.

The Boge thread is not controversial, because you can get Koni and/or Bilstein inserts for a Boge thread strut, but if you've got a Koni or Bilstein-threaded strut, you're a little more locked in.

I mention this because there _are_ 3.5" (S-caliper) Boge-thread 'T' struts. I looked all through the parts books 'back in the day' to find them. Specifically, Sportomatic Targas had them, possibly only in 1972.

I've got a pair, which I bought new from the dealer because I wanted to run S calipers and already had a set of Boge-thread externally adjustable Koni inserts. I can get you part numbers in the morning. Wedge-pin ball joints.

Now that I've got the raised-spindle RSR Bilstein struts, I won't be needing that pair of struts either...

[Eric_Shea]

The struts that were on 99.9% of the T's yes... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[jk76.914]

Getting this together finally. Painted the struts Bilstein green, got the old ones off the car, found some new upper mounts... I'll post some new pics shortly....

Meanwhile, as I said I'm using former 914/6 parts for my 5 lug conversion. They use the pinch-bolt ball joint mount. I don't have the washer that goes between the ball joint and the strut, and they're discontinued, at least at Pelican and at Porsche. It's item number 22 in the drawing below, part number 901 341 659 00.

Is there anything unique about this washer? I measure the ball joint at .630", non-tapered, so a 5/8 washer would do it. I can get hardened steel or stainless steel, in various thicknesses and OD. Does anyone have one laying around that they can measure for me?

Thanks, Jim

[jk76.914]

Painted John Deere green. I coated it with Ben Moore matt clear (rattle can) when the green was almost dry (felt a drag when I ran my finger across it lightly), and it really brought it to a perfect Bilstein green, in my opinion.

You can also see the stickers Bilstein sent me when I ordered the wrench last fall.