Need a timing Sanity check!, timing Options

[kphimself]

I recently did some engine work and when i put the engine back in the car i could not get it to start. It is getting fuel and has a spark. I found the tdc mark on the fan and placed the distributor in, it seems to be keyed and will only go in one direction. After reading other threads i have become a bit confused on where the location of the #1 cylinder is on the distributer in relation to the fan (fan being 12 O'clock). At TDC mine seems to be at around the 5 O'clock position. Could my fan somehow be installed incorrectly? It also had a pin and would only go on one way.

[type47]

My first suspect is that the distributor drive gear is installed wrong, that is, "indexed" wrong. There should be a little notch along the perimeter of the metal rim of the distributor that identifies #1 cylinder. When the dizzy rotor does not point to that notch when the motor is turned to #1 cylinder, I would suspect the drive gear. The factory manual (well, the Haynes also shows it) shows how to install the gear at a 12 degree angle so maybe when you did the engine work, it was installed wrong. A motor will run with the gear wrong but you can't get the timing marks correct (BTDT, again, thanks to norustscott for figuring this out on my motor; I installed at 12 degrees but in the wrong direction.)

[kphimself]

Nothing was done with the distributer while it was out of the engine so i think i can rule that out. Providing the evil car grimlins didn't pay me a visit again. The car has tried to fire up a couple times and even almost tried to run once . I guess i'll have to just have it towed back to the super over priced garage and hope the dont distroy more things then they fix again. Thanks for the advice though.

[IronHillRestorations]

You are correct that the distributor can only go in one way, the drive on the bottom of the distributor is asymetrical, as is the top of the dist. drive down inside that bore.

Did you pull the distributor?

Did you take the drive off the bottom of the distributor?

Did you have the engine on a stand and rotate it upside down? That could cause the dist drive gear to partially slide out and change orientation.

Do you have the distributor cap on 180* out? The distributor and cap are indexed so in theory you can only put the cap on one way, but I've seen it hacked an put on wrong.

Did you remove the plug wires from the cap?

The best thing to do at this point would be pull the valve cover off the cyl #1 side and make sure #1 is at TDC, and that you have the distributor installed correctly, sounds like you may have installed it at TDC for #3 cylinder

[kphimself]

Upon further inspection of the fan i found that it has two markings on it and they, by my best guess are 180 off. One is red and the other is white, has anyone ever seen this before?
Thanks for all the advice.

[ArtechnikA]

Upon further inspection of the fan i found that it has two markings on it and they, by my best guess are 180 off. One is red and the other is white, has anyone ever seen this before?

You will be glad of that come valve adjustment time...
(If one mark is TDC for 1 & 3, the other is TDC for 2 & 4 ...)

[VaccaRabite]

OKay, the real first question. Are you sure that you are actually at TDC. An engine with move a piston to the top of its travel twice during, but only one of those times is TDC.

You are at TDC when the piston is at the top of its travel AND both valves are closed. Turn the engine by hand (spark plugs out) until #1 is at TDC and then see which line is showing. You may have to turn the engine a degree or two either direction to find the line.

Zach

[ArtechnikA]

OKay, the real first question. Are you sure that you are actually at TDC. An engine with move a piston to the top of its travel twice during, but only one of those times is TDC.

You are at TDC when the piston is at the top of its travel AND both valves are closed.

For completeness - sorta...

The piston doesn't know the difference between one TDC and the next - TDC is TDC. But one is more useful (i.e. we care about) than the other. (The cam position is different.)

The 'useful' TDC when both valves are closed is "TDC Compression" (the other is "TDC Exhaust").

When #1 is at TDC Compression (the basis for timing, although it's all arbitrary) #3 is at TDC Exhaust.

To know which is which, assuming no prior knowledge of the engine, yes, you've gotta pop a valve cover to know what the valves are doing.

[kphimself]

I have a feeling its at TDC on the #3, if thats the case wouldn't i just need to swap my #1 and #3, #2 and #4 wires. Im trying to avoid taking the valve covers off, they don't leak anymore.

[Cap'n Krusty]

Upon further inspection of the fan i found that it has two markings on it and they, by my best guess are 180 off. One is red and the other is white, has anyone ever seen this before?

You will be glad of that come valve adjustment time...
(If one mark is TDC for 1 & 3, the other is TDC for 2 & 4 ...)

Does anyone REALLY still use that method for valve adjustments? Well, except for people who think Wayne is a mechanic?

The Cap'n

[kphimself]

Upon further inspection of the fan i found that it has two markings on it and they, by my best guess are 180 off. One is red and the other is white, has anyone ever seen this before?

You will be glad of that come valve adjustment time...
(If one mark is TDC for 1 & 3, the other is TDC for 2 & 4 ...)

Ahh, that makes perfect sense now!!! I knew it had to be something simple.
You guys are the best.

[VaccaRabite]

I have a feeling its at TDC on the #3, if thats the case wouldn't i just need to swap my #1 and #3, #2 and #4 wires. Im trying to avoid taking the valve covers off, they don't leak anymore.

That will work if you are timed as you think, and I think that would be a good next test.