Dead Dells-Advice Needed, New EFI Kit or Weber Carbs Options

[GTown74]

My 74 2.0 was rebuild back in 1998 and I could never get the 36mm Dells to run out right. It was taken to a local Porsche shop who also had no such luck. With my new business just starting it went into the garage. I'm happy to say it has seen a lot of restoration in the past 6-months but now I'm down to the engine again.
It has been taken to a local aircooled specialist who ran into the same issue. The carbs have been soaked, a rebuild kit installed but it still has issues. After trying a different set of carbs from the shop it ran like a champ. They have recommended a new set of webers but I've also been looking at the CB Performance Quick Tune EFI System.
Are these kits worth the extra money and will the engine be more reliable with them vs the Webers? I would also be interested to know of other kits options avaliable.
My local shop has given me a rough estimate between 10-15 hours to install. Keep in mind that I'm no mechanic but do know how to sync up my carbs. I really just want the option that will keep it on the road, be as reliable as possible, and give me the least amount of problems. I've had my 914 since 1988 and it has seen more garage time than road time...I now want it to be the other way around! I'm willing to spend the extra money if it is worth the cost. All advice is greatly appreciated!

[ConeDodger]

Dells are good carbs.

Maybe you were just going to the wrong peeps.

Contact Art Thrane at ACE in Salt Lake City Utah... He will send them back to you rebuilt and set-up close enough that all you have to do is bolt them on and fine tune.

[bfrymire]

My 74 2.0 was rebuild back in 1998 and I could never get the 36mm Dells to run out right. It was taken to a local Porsche shop who also had no such luck. With my new business just starting it went into the garage. I'm happy to say it has seen a lot of restoration in the past 6-months but now I'm down to the engine again.
It has been taken to a local aircooled specialist who ran into the same issue. The carbs have been soaked, a rebuild kit installed but it still has issues. After trying a different set of carbs from the shop it ran like a champ. They have recommended a new set of webers but I've also been looking at the CB Performance Quick Tune EFI System.
Are these kits worth the extra money and will the engine be more reliable with them vs the Webers? I would also be interested to know of other kits options avaliable.
My local shop has given me a rough estimate between 10-15 hours to install. Keep in mind that I'm no mechanic but do know how to sync up my carbs. I really just want the option that will keep it on the road, be as reliable as possible, and give me the least amount of problems. I've had my 914 since 1988 and it has seen more garage time than road time...I now want it to be the other way around! I'm willing to spend the extra money if it is worth the cost. All advice is greatly appreciated!

All comes down to budget. The Dells can work. What are the symptoms?

EFI:

Options

1. Stock
2. Aftermarket
a ) CB
B ) Megasquirt. Check out the ITB at http://www.extrudabody.com You will be able to use your existing manifold.
c ) SDSEFI.com Pretty much turn key with the electronics.

I would take the time to review all the options and pick what fits what you need, and want to spend. I am sure there are quite a few more options, such as Link, to name another.

I have both the Link and a Megasquirt system. (Link on a subaru conversion, and a MS on a 914-6.) MS take a fair amount more work to install. But, I am sold on it.

Hope that helps.

-- brett

[Jake Raby]

If you can't work through carb issues, you can't work through EFI issues... I see lots of people that have the perception that EFI is the solution to all issues, when it certainly is not.

EFI has its place, but thats not in solving interface issues between the tuner and the engine.

[bobhasissues]

After trying a different set of carbs from the shop it ran like a champ.

What carbs did they try? Buy those from your mechanic. Dell 36's seem a tad small for a 2.0, but they should run.

[underthetire]

+1 on the Megasquirt. And the EFI at least for me was way easier to tune than carbs. No switching parts, no plug readings. Log the O2 values and make changes through the laptop. Maybe use the dells as throttle bodies....

[GTown74]

After trying a different set of carbs from the shop it ran like a champ.

What carbs did they try? Buy those from your mechanic. Dell 36's seem a tad small for a 2.0, but they should run.

They used a set of 40mm Dells with a 32 Venturies and they did feel like it was under carburated. It just seems that one of the barrels has some internal issues and is a manufacturing defect. As mentioned, it has been looked at by two specialist so I'm pretty sure it is the carb. All of the standard basic set-up and adjustments have been performed and with the 40mm it ran great!

Thank you...

[GTown74]

Dells are good carbs.

Maybe you were just going to the wrong peeps.

Contact Art Thrane at ACE in Salt Lake City Utah... He will send them back to you rebuilt and set-up close enough that all you have to do is bolt them on and fine tune.

Thank you! I'm getting ready to call them right now. If anything, I'm sure they can give me some good advice and probably have something in stock that might be a purchase option. I've already look at there website.

[bobhasissues]

Dells are good carbs.

Maybe you were just going to the wrong peeps.

Contact Art Thrane at ACE in Salt Lake City Utah... He will send them back to you rebuilt and set-up close enough that all you have to do is bolt them on and fine tune.

Thank you! I'm getting ready to call them right now. If anything, I'm sure they can give me some good advice and probably have something in stock that might be a purchase option. I've already look at there website.

Art at ACE is a great guy, tell him the whole story and he can advise you whether to repair the 36's, he can flow test them, or he'll set you up with some 40's (Dell or Weber). Go this route and you won't regret it.

[realred914]

what are folks paying for efi aftermarket kits?

i got a 2.0 liter ready to be rebuilt, need to decide on way to go, dont really want carbs, have a good stock FI system, but that limits me to to a 2056 cc motor I would like to have a more powerful motr but my stock FI is my limiting factor.

what would one of the mega squirt or sdsefi systems cost in kit form for a 914?

what extras would be needed to buy?

and how do you all like them, and what sized motor you got them on???

And what fuel economy you get???

any of them daily drivers???

I need to be ready to pull the trigger on parts for the motor this week, if a aftermarket Fi system looks good and is afordable to me, then i may go with that for my motor build.

[underthetire]

Don't think anyone has done a real Megasquirt kit yet. I did mine for less than 300, but was able to source a free O2 sensor and GM TPS, and didn't mind doing some board soldering. I drive mine everyday above 60 Deg, and below 90 deg. Those days I want the car with heat or AC. You will need a laptop to install the megasquirt, any will do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT5NxyHKZIw

Size doesn't matter...

[bfrymire]

what are folks paying for efi aftermarket kits?

please excuse the brief hijack of thread.

That is hard to answer. Do you have a laptop? Do you plan to build the ECU yourself?

Try DIYAUTOTUNE.com for prices. You can see what you need. If you build yourself, you can save around 30% of the cost. (You will need temp sensor, O2 sensor, and IAC sensor) This is for megasquirt.

I believe the closest kit for the 914 for SDSEFI is around $1500 and is pretty complete. (I think you have to still buy the injectors, so add around $200, but you may be able to use the existing ones. Not sure.)

This is based on all new components.

Hijack off: should start a thread, or look for one. Maybe another wiki is in order to make this easier for people to get all the info in one place.

-- brett

[Mark Henry]

Kit would be a improper term as it suggests plug and play (PnP) and no one offers a true PnP EFI system. That said I could easily install a SDS fuel only system in a day, because I'm familiar with it. Crankfire is a totally different story as you have to fab a mount and disc and remove the engine and fan assembly to install it.

SDS with crankfire is over $1500, without it's under, but everyone seems to be forgetting the O2 meter, so add that cost to the MS or SDS.
The stock Bosch 2.0 green tops work fine, but they are low impedance and you must add the resistor pack into the injector harness. This is free on the SDS if you ask for it.

[azbill]

After market EFI is not cheap. You will need the MPS, fuel pressure regulator, coolant temp sensor (Air Temp off the case) Air sensor in the air box for intake temp., vacuum block just to start. Then setting up the maps or programming the "brain". This was biggest problem for me. I am still doing some twicks after a 1 year of screwing around. I leaned a lot and the sense of accomplishment is fantastic. So if you going the EFI route it is not cheap and not without a lot of hair pulling. Good luck.

PS I'm using an Emerald M3D ECU. a tried true system that controls fuel and spark.

[underthetire]

After market EFI is not cheap. You will need the MPS, fuel pressure regulator, coolant temp sensor (Air Temp off the case) Air sensor in the air box for intake temp., vacuum block just to start. Then setting up the maps or programming the "brain". This was biggest problem for me. I am still doing some twicks after a 1 year of screwing around. I leaned a lot and the sense of accomplishment is fantastic. So if you going the EFI route it is not cheap and not without a lot of hair pulling. Good luck.

PS I'm using an Emerald M3D ECU. a tried true system that controls fuel and spark.

300 isn't cheap? Megasquirt uses a MAP, comes with the kit. Air temp is already on stock injection, oil temp or head temp will work, stock senders are fine. Really all you need if you have stock FI is to source a O2, a weld in bung, and a TPS if you want one. If you want to go big twin throttle bodies, lots of people use GSXR throttle bodies. I sold all my old Djet stuff on evilbay and got half my money back.

[azbill]

The problem with megasquirt is it is considered experimental. Yes there is quite a few in use but the components are cobbled together. Some may say I over spent but I can contact the manufacturer and get answers with known results. Just my opinion. In any event EFI is a steep learning curve and depending on the skill level pricey that is the bottom line. Using stock 35 year old components makes for a unreliable system.

Out of curiosity would you give me a link to GSXR throttle bodies

Thanks
Bill

[GTown74]

Dells are good carbs.

Maybe you were just going to the wrong peeps.

Contact Art Thrane at ACE in Salt Lake City Utah... He will send them back to you rebuilt and set-up close enough that all you have to do is bolt them on and fine tune.

Thank you! I'm getting ready to call them right now. If anything, I'm sure they can give me some good advice and probably have something in stock that might be a purchase option. I've already look at there website.

Art at ACE is a great guy, tell him the whole story and he can advise you whether to repair the 36's, he can flow test them, or he'll set you up with some 40's (Dell or Weber). Go this route and you won't regret it.

I did call ACE today but did not speak to Art. I talked with Dave and he was great! Lots of good advice, friendly, and took the time to discuss my options. He seems to be a big fan of my Dells and feels he can get them running right. I believe him...he seemed to really know them inside and out. I'm going to pick-up my engine tomorrow and send him the carbs for testing. I'm also planning to call Art to discuss possibly finding a set of 40mm Dells.

Thanks everyone for all your great advice and time! I will keep you posted...

[sean_v8_914]

even "experts" take things apart and re-assemble them as they were but cleaner and tuned only to discover it still wont work
DElls are way better than webers.
36s are just fine on a 2.0
only a real engine guru shoujld claim "it sounds under carbed"or "feels under carbed"


"EFI has its place, but thats not in solving interface issues between the tuner and the engine."
oh my ribs hurt

[underthetire]

The problem with megasquirt is it is considered experimental. Yes there is quite a few in use but the components are cobbled together. Some may say I over spent but I can contact the manufacturer and get answers with known results. Just my opinion. In any event EFI is a steep learning curve and depending on the skill level pricey that is the bottom line. Using stock 35 year old components makes for a unreliable system.

Out of curiosity would you give me a link to GSXR throttle bodies

Thanks
Bill

I'll look for it, i know it was like 2003 year Tb's, a guy at work has a set he's selling. Think he wanted a 100 bucks. And my megasquirt has been way more reliable than the rest of the car !

[Jake Raby]

This year at least 10 people I know have gone to EFI because they could not manipulate carbs... Well guess what? Those people just thought they had issues with carbs, because they can't even grasp the concept of tuning a system with greater resolution points.

The best and worst attributes of EFI are the same- vast adjustability.

I have PEFI and Carbureted cars both. I appreciate both of them for what they offer and know the limitations of each, the strengths and weaknesses as well.. I grew up with carbs and points and still appreciate those, but I can tune Motec, Autronic, SDS, Haltech or Electromotive. I never recommend EFI to someone to solve carburetion issues.

If you can't sync or tune a carb, what in the hell are you going to do when you have a fuel delivery challenge with EFI??? I build as many engines with PEFI as I do carburetion, but the people that I build them for vary vastly in their abilities, experience and willingness to "fiddle"... Fiddling breeds issues, my goal is to keep the engine lid closed as much as possible for more than just checking the oil.