push rhod, seal replacement Options

[914itis]

looking for instructions on push rod replacement with pictures.

[VaccaRabite]

Not hard to do, and you can do it with the engine in your car. Pelican may have a photo essay on it, or maybe aircooled.net.

Get the back end of your car in the air. you are going to be spending some time under there so get it to a height where you have enough room to work and are comfortable. Use jackstands.

1) Pop the valve covers off. Just look at everything for a moment so you have an idea of how its going to come out. The valves are on a rocking arm that is held on to the head via an axle. That axle is supported by 2 bolts. There are 2 axles. There is also a spring wire keeper that spans the head and has prods that go into the push rod tubes.

2) undo the 4 bolts that hold the adjusters to the head, and remove both the entire adjuster assembly. These are oily, and can slide apart. Its not a big deal if they do - but try and keep them together. Put them in the valve cover top so you don't lose anything. Be careful of the little wire spring thing that runs across the head. You don't want to mangle it.

3) pull the pushrods out. mark them somehow so you know what tube they go back into. It is important not to get your pushrods mixed up. Except some people say it isn't important. You can make your own choice on this one, but I suggest marking them so that they go back into the same bore they came out of.

4) the lifters may or may not slide on out. If they do, make sure they go back into the bore they came out of.

5) with a pair of plyers, grab the pushrod tube under the cylinders and carefully rotate it back and forth until you can get it loose and it slides out. With the engine in the car, you probably won't be able to get the tube all the way out unless you lower fan side of the engine a little. Unless you find a ton of RTV or silicone sealant in there, I don't think you need to bother fully removing the tubes. Again, a lifter may come out. It is important that the lifter finds its way back into the same bore it came out of.

6) remove the old rubber seals, clean up the sealing surface and replace with the VITON o-rings. Lube them with motor oil. Again, different folks do this differently. Some like to place them in dry, others like to use grease, others like to use engine oil. My bias here is clear. Get ready, the only tricky part is coming up.

7) Replace the pushrod tubes back into engine case and head. What is so tricky about that?! Well, you also have to make sure that the pushrod tubes get fully seated without pinching and cutting the O-ring. This is why its good to clean the sealing surfaces and then lube with some oil. It is a tight fit getting them back in, and if they pinch they are almost certainly ruined. Once the tubes are in, inspect (you may need a mirror) to make sure they are fully seated and in good shape (no pinching, no cuts).

8) Put the heads back together. Use a new cork gasket on the rocker covers.

if done correctly, your pushrod tubes will not leak. DO NOT use sealant of ANY kind on them. You may stop a leak now with it now, but when the sealant fails (and it will) you will never got them sealed again unless you can get rid of all the old sealant. Which is a HUGE PITA.

[914itis]

looking for instructions on push rod replacement with pictures.

Thanks, you always come to my rescue. when I am done with this project, i will take a drive to PA to thank you in person. I will make that my first long distance drive.

[type47]

Go Zach! The only thing I would add is when removing (not sooooo important) and installing (important, I think) the rocker arm assemblies, to bring engine to TDC on the rocker arm you are installing to relieve tension on the assembly from the valve springs to get correct torque on the assembly. As I re-read my own comments I think this is hard to explain but I think you want zero valve lift when installing. It's like when you adjust the valves on one cylinder and need TDC for that cylinder.

[Cevan]

I used thread sealant (Permatex high temp) on the pushrod tube seals. No leaks so far.

[stugray]

If it is just one pushrod, you can replace it without removing the rocker arms.

You would loosen the one rocker enough to remove the pushrod, then you have to destroy the pushrod tube to remove it.

Then you can replace it with an expanding pushrod tube.
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1395

replace pushrod and reset the valve adjustment.


See here:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4870051

Stu

[ChrisFoley]

If it is just one pushrod, you can replace it without removing the rocker arms.

You would loosen the one rocker enough to remove the pushrod, then you have to destroy the pushrod tube to remove it.

Then you can replace it with an expanding pushrod tube.
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1395

replace pushrod and reset the valve adjustment.


See here:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4870051

Stu

That would work if he had a Type 1 engine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[stugray]

LOL!
"That would work if he had a Type 1 engine."

Sorry yes, I had a flashback to my Ghia Days.

I still have T1 heads laying around my garage, I better make sure I dont mix up parts..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif) I must be the one on the right

Stu

[realred914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) ditto on use of viton material o-rings it is best for the high temps and will last much longer than less material. be sure to lube the oring, o-rings are designs to have some lube to help them move into postion to seal, no lube and they can bind and cause a leak.

it is very very importnat to make sure the seal areas are super clean, you really need a flash light and mirror to insepct teh surfaces prior to install, one speck of grit and the seal may leak.

also it is very easy to pinch an o-ring when assembling (lube helps reduce this posibility) so after you have the push rod tube installed, again use a flash light and mirror to inspect that no rubber is pinched and exposed out fo the sealing surfaces, this can happen easily. to help prevent this pinching it is helpfull to rotate teh push rod tube back and forth as you insert it. if an o-ring does start to extrude out of the seal area use a blunt wood stick to help it back in place as you release the tube and push it back in.

again you should re-insect the installed tubes ends with mirroe and flash light to confirm that no seal got extruded out of the seal area, look all aournd 360 degrees on each tube to confirm the seal is not popped out in any location. better to find that problem now than finding it when it leaks.

have fun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/santa_smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)

[914itis]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) ditto on use of viton material o-rings it is best for the high temps and will last much longer than less material. be sure to lube the oring, o-rings are designs to have some lube to help them move into postion to seal, no lube and they can bind and cause a leak.

it is very very importnat to make sure the seal areas are super clean, you really need a flash light and mirror to insepct teh surfaces prior to install, one speck of grit and the seal may leak.

also it is very easy to pinch an o-ring when assembling (lube helps reduce this posibility) so after you have the push rod tube installed, again use a flash light and mirror to inspect that no rubber is pinched and exposed out fo the sealing surfaces, this can happen easily. to help prevent this pinching it is helpfull to rotate teh push rod tube back and forth as you insert it. if an o-ring does start to extrude out of the seal area use a blunt wood stick to help it back in place as you release the tube and push it back in.

again you should re-insect the installed tubes ends with mirroe and flash light to confirm that no seal got extruded out of the seal area, look all aournd 360 degrees on each tube to confirm the seal is not popped out in any location. better to find that problem now than finding it when it leaks.

have fun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/flag.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/santa_smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ar15.gif)

Thank you all. I did the job today, it took 6 hours. The old tube had enough silicone to seal two v6 head cover without a gasket lol. It was easy with all your help, I was a bit confuse because the new seals did nit have a tight fit. But I noticed that they were only like that for the drivers side rods. For some reason the password side is bit thicker and they fit perfect. I hope that don't cause any problem in the future. Another issue was that after putting everything back, the car wouldn't start, I went back and noticed that 2 of the weren't sitting properly on the rockers. I fixed them and the car started right up. I ran it for 30 minutes, (did not drive) and no leaks so far. I will be doing the dwell adjustment and timing check in the morning will keep you all posted.

[Cap'n Krusty]

You may have a problem here.

Before we get to that, it's important to note that you haven't told us anything about your car or your engine. Makes it pretty difficult to give you accurate and useble answers.

I'm guessing it's a 1.7, and it sounds like you may have one early head or one late head, or that you have a mismatched set of tubes or o-rings. Very early heads have different bores for the pushrod tubes, and different tubes, and different seals, than later heads. The fit of the seals MUST be so tight you almost can't slide the tubes into place, even with lubricant. There is NO mix-'n-match.

You need to revisit the job and figure out what you have, or you're most likely gonna have leaks.

As for the poster who used sealant, that's a mistake, and it's likely you're also gonna have problems. I use motor oil, Jake uses a non-hardening sealant, and no one experienced with these engines recommends anything else. The tubes have to be able to move in the bores, even though it's not very much.

The Cap'n

[914itis]

You may have a problem here.

Before we get to that, it's important to note that you haven't told us anything about your car or your engine. Makes it pretty difficult to give you accurate and useble answers.

I'm guessing it's a 1.7, and it sounds like you may have one early head or one late head, or that you have a mismatched set of tubes or o-rings. Very early heads have different bores for the pushrod tubes, and different tubes, and different seals, than later heads. The fit of the seals MUST be so tight you almost can't slide the tubes into place, even with lubricant. There is NO mix-'n-match.

You need to revisit the job and figure out what you have, or you're most likely gonna have leaks.

As for the poster who used sealant, that's a mistake, and it's likely you're also gonna have problems. I use motor oil, Jake uses a non-hardening sealant, and no one experienced with these engines recommends anything else. The tubes have to be able to move in the bores, even though it's not very much.

The Cap'n

I removed all the sealants. I cleaned everything out like new. As far as the seals, they are pretty tight, I had to force them in. they snapped and pretty tight. when i say that they were loose fit, I meant as on the rod itsef as i am holding it when i insert the the seal. i was able to roll it free on the set for the drivers side and the passenger's side was a bit thighter.


You think thet I mat have two different head?

[914itis]

You may have a problem here.

Before we get to that, it's important to note that you haven't told us anything about your car or your engine. Makes it pretty difficult to give you accurate and useble answers.

I'm guessing it's a 1.7, and it sounds like you may have one early head or one late head, or that you have a mismatched set of tubes or o-rings. Very early heads have different bores for the pushrod tubes, and different tubes, and different seals, than later heads. The fit of the seals MUST be so tight you almost can't slide the tubes into place, even with lubricant. There is NO mix-'n-match.

You need to revisit the job and figure out what you have, or you're most likely gonna have leaks.

As for the poster who used sealant, that's a mistake, and it's likely you're also gonna have problems. I use motor oil, Jake uses a non-hardening sealant, and no one experienced with these engines recommends anything else. The tubes have to be able to move in the bores, even though it's not very much.

The Cap'n

I removed all the sealants. I cleaned everything out like new. As far as the seals, they are pretty tight, I had to force them in. they snapped and pretty tight. when i say that they were loose fit, I meant as on the rod itsef as i am holding it when i insert the the seal. i was able to roll it free on the set for the drivers side and the passenger's side was a bit thighter.


You think thet I mat have two different head?

and yes I used engine oil to get them in

[VaccaRabite]

If you ran the engine for 30 minutes and had no leaks you are probably okay. You have the most pressure at start up when the engine is cold. The real test will be tomorrow when you look to see if you have any new oil drips under the car.

Zach

[914itis]

If you ran the engine for 30 minutes and had no leaks you are probably okay. You have the most pressure at start up when the engine is cold. The real test will be tomorrow when you look to see if you have any new oil drips under the car.

Zach

I will do a dwell, carb and timing adjustment tomorow.
I'd like to do an oild change also tomorow, what type do you use?

[VaccaRabite]

I use Brad Penn 20w50.
I can't find it locally, and so I buy it by the case from one of the vendors here (Tangerine)

Zach

[914itis]

I use Brad Penn 20w50.
I can't find it locally, and so I buy it by the case from one of the vendors here (Tangerine)

Zach

As you know, I dont trust the previousmechanic, if you were to pick something localy what would you pick? i just want to change the oil quick I am not sure what he has in there, then I will order the brad penn.

How many qurats does the engine takes?

[VaccaRabite]

This is another one of those cans of worms that folks get excited about.

Recent oil reformulations have taken some of the essential lubricants out of the oil that we need with our type of engine. I know that Brad Penn 20w50 has the stuff we need, so I use it even though it is kind of a PITA to buy.

I think that Castrol has a high "new" ZDDP content oil in 20W-50, but I don't know if you are going to be able to find it locally. Might be worth a look. I'd just run what you have until you can get a case of Brad Penn ordered in. Whatever you find locally is likely not going to be any better.

Zach

[914itis]

This is another one of those cans of worms that folks get excited about.

Recent oil reformulations have taken some of the essential lubricants out of the oil that we need with our type of engine. I know that Brad Penn 20w50 has the stuff we need, so I use it even though it is kind of a PITA to buy.

I think that Castrol has a high "new" ZDDP content oil in 20W-50, but I don't know if you are going to be able to find it locally. Might be worth a look. I'd just run what you have until you can get a case of Brad Penn ordered in. Whatever you find locally is likely not going to be any better.

Zach

ok thanks

[914itis]

This is another one of those cans of worms that folks get excited about.

Recent oil reformulations have taken some of the essential lubricants out of the oil that we need with our type of engine. I know that Brad Penn 20w50 has the stuff we need, so I use it even though it is kind of a PITA to buy.

I think that Castrol has a high "new" ZDDP content oil in 20W-50, but I don't know if you are going to be able to find it locally. Might be worth a look. I'd just run what you have until you can get a case of Brad Penn ordered in. Whatever you find locally is likely not going to be any better.

Zach

ok thanks

I found a dealer in my area. its about 30 miles from me, but I will take the drive. how many quarts do I need for one change?