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> Can my 914 run on a 14v battery?, Will it tolerate it?
Rod
post Oct 27 2010, 03:38 PM
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I'm into my hi end car audio and I have a 14v agm battery - would I be able to use this in the 914?
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benalishhero
post Oct 27 2010, 03:53 PM
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I say you would have an amp issue though.
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Rod
post Oct 27 2010, 03:55 PM
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QUOTE(benalishhero @ Oct 27 2010, 10:53 PM) *

I say you would have an amp issue though.


No thats the point, my McIntosh amps are designed to run 14v. I run them on teh bench from a 14.2v power supply and they are better at the higher voltage tbh!
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underthetire
post Oct 27 2010, 04:12 PM
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Don't see why not. Charging system is ~13.8 when running, although it may not be able to charge that battery. If they are lithium, i wouldn't do it. those take a very special charge, and will overheat and burn your car to the ground.
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Rod
post Oct 27 2010, 04:16 PM
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No, not lithium - they are sealed lead acid batteries, basically a slightly different cell structure to reach 14v rather than 12v
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jsayre914
post Oct 27 2010, 04:31 PM
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I have been running dual kinetik batteries for some time, and I know the current is well over 12 volts. No problems Yet.

Here is a link that might help

http://www.kinetikaudio.com/2009/support.asp
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Rod
post Oct 27 2010, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE(jsayre914 @ Oct 27 2010, 11:31 PM) *

I have been running dual kinetik batteries for some time, and I know the current is well over 12 volts. No problems Yet.

Here is a link that might help

http://www.kinetikaudio.com/2009/support.asp



Very interesting Joseph, Are you running two 12v batts in your 914? If so which models?

Ok just looked on your blog! So two 12v batts from a 120 amp alternator. Do you have a split charge relay in there too?
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windforfun
post Oct 27 2010, 04:44 PM
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QUOTE(underthetire @ Oct 27 2010, 03:12 PM) *

Don't see why not. Charging system is ~13.8 when running, although it may not be able to charge that battery. If they are lithium, i wouldn't do it. those take a very special charge, and will overheat and burn your car to the ground.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
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Mike Bellis
post Oct 27 2010, 06:48 PM
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Many racers run 16 Volt dual tap batteries (12V/16V) They have a 12V tap for the car electronics and a 16V tap for spark control or amplifiers like yours. They do require a voltage booster for normal charging. The voltage booster mounts in line with the alternator output. You will need around 16V just to keep your 14V battery charged. You could also have a custom alternator wound for higher voltage. Then you would use a resistor network to drop voltage to the vehicle electronics or several diodes in series. A typical diode will drop 0.7 volts in the forward bias. Most amplifiers, yours included have a voltage range. Usually 10-14 volts and will work fine within that range. 14 volts will net higher output wattage than 12V.

The real question... Your amplifier may be more valuable that your 914. Do you really want to install it in a car that spends most of its life on jack stands? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)
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monkeyboy
post Oct 28 2010, 12:24 PM
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How much more power are you getting at 14v? Is it even enough to bother with?
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jsayre914
post Oct 28 2010, 12:47 PM
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QUOTE(Rod @ Oct 27 2010, 06:43 PM) *

QUOTE(jsayre914 @ Oct 27 2010, 11:31 PM) *

I have been running dual kinetik batteries for some time, and I know the current is well over 12 volts. No problems Yet.

Here is a link that might help

http://www.kinetikaudio.com/2009/support.asp



Very interesting Joseph, Are you running two 12v batts in your 914? If so which models?

Ok just looked on your blog! So two 12v batts from a 120 amp alternator. Do you have a split charge relay in there too?


The batteries are tied togeather, no isolators or relays. The guys at Kinetik said it would be fine. So far so good. Here is the thread

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=102167&hl=

p.s. My next stereo project is already in the process (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) I really like what you did with yours (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)
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Mike Bellis
post Oct 28 2010, 01:07 PM
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QUOTE(monkeyboy @ Oct 28 2010, 11:24 AM) *

How much more power are you getting at 14v? Is it even enough to bother with?

Wattage formula: P=IxE
P=Power/wattage
I=Amperage/current
E=Voltage

So, 12V x 20 Amps = 240 Watts Peak

or, 14V x 20 Amps = 280 Watts Peak

It does not seem like much until you get to a larger amp. Mine for example...
12V x 80 Amps = 960 Watts peak
or
14V x 80 Amps = 1120 Watts peak

The peak numbers most then be multiplied by 0.707 to get RMS Wattage.

So my 1120 Watts peak = 791.84 Watts RMS (Root Mean Squared)

Maximum amperage can be determined (best guess) by the recommended fuse size. My Kenwood amp uses four 20 Amp fuses on the Amp itself. So It can draw a maximum of 80 Amps. This would be at clipping level, distorted right before a fuse blows.

Some companies put oversize fuses (off brands) and are not reliable. The Federal Trade Commission does not regulate Car Audio the same as Home Hi-Fi. The is no regulation on Car Audio. Any Manufacturer can claim any wattage they want. The just claim it based on 20 Volts. Only name brand companies comply and rate their equipment correctly. Stay away from off brands claiming 1000 Watts of power.
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windforfun
post Oct 28 2010, 01:48 PM
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I sort of agree, but remember that your amps aren't 100 % efficient. They get hot.
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mskala
post Oct 28 2010, 02:31 PM
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It's been a while since I've had a -4, but if your voltage regulator is the
old mechanical type, you can tune it to 15.5~16V by bending a tab.
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Rod
post Oct 28 2010, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE(mskala @ Oct 28 2010, 09:31 PM) *

It's been a while since I've had a -4, but if your voltage regulator is the
old mechanical type, you can tune it to 15.5~16V by bending a tab.


Really i'd like to know more...

To all those that don't believe - yes amps make heat, of course they do, but they are also far more efficient with a higher voltage input, so the effort involved in getting a couple more volts input is well worth it.. When the alt is running in a car the battery is basically not used and the voltage supplied is (from the standard alt) 13.6 volts - shut the engine down and the voltage drops instantly to 12.5/6/4 whatever your battery is capable of. If you are involved in sound competitions as I am, keeping the voltage up is really important as the system is judged without the engine running, so the better the voltage supply and more constant the better. Going off topic slightly, some people use caps to keep the voltage from dropping, but you can tell everyone yo know that these are a waste of time as the problem in a car audio system is always the wiring to and from the battery - If the lights dim then it is most probably the negative wire because it is of a smaller awg to the supply wire, therefore causing a bottleneck in the circuit. Put a cap in and yes, it will supply the power needed, but the old wiring circuit still needs to supply the cap with its power, and through the smaller negative wire it will still struggle to circuit properly. So anyone that has a cap that says it improves their sound system you can now inform them of their weaknesses!

Anyway back on topic - a very interesting discussion has evolved and I look forward to other opinions... Oh and to the other nutter with all the Phoenix Gold equipment in his car - I now have two McIntosh amps in the car, ID horns and EMIT tweeters - Sounding amazing!!! Better than my home hifi (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)
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windforfun
post Oct 28 2010, 03:01 PM
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Do you use "pi" filters to eliminate engine noise?
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Rod
post Oct 28 2010, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE(windforfun @ Oct 28 2010, 10:01 PM) *

Do you use "pi" filters to eliminate engine noise?


What the hell are they? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)


No I dont. If you have a system wired correctly first time round without any ground loops you will have zero noise!
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jsayre914
post Oct 28 2010, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE(Rod @ Oct 28 2010, 04:53 PM) *

Oh and to the other nutter with all the Phoenix Gold equipment in his car - I now have two McIntosh amps in the car, ID horns and EMIT tweeters - Sounding amazing!!! Better than my home hifi (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

You just motivated me to start my "NEW" Phoenix build thread.

Us nutters need to stick togeather (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

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messix
post Oct 28 2010, 03:18 PM
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here ya go. just need to do same fab work to make it work,
http://www.jegs.com/p/Powermaster/Powermas...042142/10002/-1
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messix
post Oct 28 2010, 03:20 PM
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here ya go. just need to do same fab work to make it work,
http://www.jegs.com/p/Powermaster/Powermas...042142/10002/-1
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