what have you done with stock FI and performance mods?, quest for a killer D-jet 2056cc motor Options

[TheCabinetmaker]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif) [quote name='draganc' date='Nov 15 2010, 10:22 PM' post='1395030']
@realred914, what is your budget?

you know that you will spend at least $4-6000 with the engine mods that you want, which will lead you to a max of 120hp.

if you want a lot of HP for your $$$ you should consider as well other options as a V8 or a subaru "upgrade".
[I/quote]
G[quote name='draganc' date='Nov 15 2010, 10:22 PM' post='1395030']
@realred914, what is your budget?

you know that you will spend at least $4-6000 with the engine mods that you want, which will lead you to a max of 120hp.

if you want a lot of HP for your $$$ you should consider as well other options as a V8 or a subaru "upgrade".
[/quote]
I disagree! I have all my parts and have started the build with jakes cam set and have less than $2500 invested

[Jake Raby]

To those who are seriously dedicated its about much more than cost.

Retaining the stock FI and keeping displacement at 2056 allows the vehicle to remain very simple, just as simple as it was 35 years ago. Simple carries a lot of value and will carry more tomorrow.

As Gretzky said "Skate to where the puck will be, not where it was or where its at right now." The demographic of 914 ownership has changed and will continue to.

[tradisrad]

@realred914, what is your budget?

you know that you will spend at least $4-6000 with the engine mods that you want, which will lead you to a max of 120hp.

if you want a lot of HP for your $$$ you should consider as well other options as a V8 or a subaru "upgrade".

He has a 914 with a buick V6. I think he wants his 4 to be quicker than mine, but I think he is quickly finding out that not a lot more can be done while keeping the stock F.I.
-realred you just need to get you car running and stop trying to squeeze out 2 more horses than me. You have the V6....

[realred914]

@realred914, what is your budget?

you know that you will spend at least $4-6000 with the engine mods that you want, which will lead you to a max of 120hp.

if you want a lot of HP for your $$$ you should consider as well other options as a V8 or a subaru "upgrade".

not limited on budget, just looking for bang for the buck that is good. spend what i have to spend to make it work. just lookingfor teh best value on parts and making it all work together to get nice driver perfromance. prefer lower rpm power over higher rpm power as I would rarely rev above 4000 almost never above 4500 rpm. good reliability and mpg is also important. so what ever it takes.

i got D-jet down and want to keep it cause i like it

when i want lots of power, I look to the 3.8 liter V6 car. this car is different

[Root_Werks]

I do understand that I can send my MPS to Bleyseng for recalibration (as tradisrad has done) to the new motor.

Not unless he decides to come back from Suriname (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
When he does Im at the front o' that line

Ooooooooooor, you could just loose the D-Jet and go L-jet.

[draganc]

@realred914, what is your budget?

you know that you will spend at least $4-6000 with the engine mods that you want, which will lead you to a max of 120hp.

if you want a lot of HP for your $$$ you should consider as well other options as a V8 or a subaru "upgrade".
[/quote]

I disagree! I have all my parts and have started the build with jakes cam set and have less than $2500 invested
[/quote]



@vsg914, can you list the parts that you have bought for $2500? How about new heads or head work? Balancing?
I have about the same amount invested in parts, plus balancing and ceramic coating. main bearings only are about $150 a set. Then you need/should refurb the old injectors, that's about $120 a set.
It's difficult for me to believe that a T4 overhaul is only $2500.
If you can do it please share your secrets. I would very much appreciate your input.

@ Jake, I’m sure that a lot of fellow club members are seriously dedicated to their 914, however, the budget is the budget. Unfortunately not everybody is able to spend $10k on a engine build.
I know you don’t cut corners and that’s good and is very well reflected in your great engine kits, however, the 914 was introduced to the market as a budget alternative to the 911.

[Jake Raby]

And the 914 is still more of a budget minded vehicle than the 911... If budgets play such a key role why are people going out of their way to make the car a"mid-engined 911"? Use 911 brakes, 911 suspension and a 911 engine and what the car was developed to be is history... Not that those are bad things, it's just part of an argument about what the car was and what it is today.

There were times when the 914 made up a smaller portion of our net sales every year, primarily due to costs related to producing things at our level. This is no longer true and since 2007 their has been a huge difference in the percentages of our sales that are 914 specific. For many years VW converts were nabbing up 914 engines for their cars and while they still do this on a large scale the percentages have changed regarding where our engines are being applied.

Yes it's a reality that someone can spend 10k on a 4 cylinder performance engine for their 914 but atleast it'll make 150-175hp... How about a bone stock 356 engine that starts at 10k and might make 85 hp on a good day costing 15k??

Most of those who I've sold these engines to don't post here... They are readers and lurkers, but they want the car a certain way and that's what we deliver, no matter the cost.. If me and my team are going to exert 100 hours of our lives into a single engine, not to mention the incurred cost of developing that engines components and combination we will be compensated monetarily.. My schedule is booked through July of 2011 so people obviously feel that what we offer is worth the price and worth the wait.

It's not for everyone, I wouldn't like doing it if it was.

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Nov 16 2010, 08:51 PM

[realred914]

my engien should be near 2 grand parts and labour. rebuilt heads, all new seats spin balance, new bearigngs, new 96 pistons, bored cylinders. align bore case, re-plug oil passages.

will update when it is done

i am hoping to get some ideas on modifications to teh 2.0 liter within the realm of using D-jet. lets keep to that idea on this post, rather than pie in the sky engines

[TheCabinetmaker]

Draganc, 2500 bucks includes everything, including head and all machine work. I don't know about the rest, but my bearings cost about half of yours. Will i tell you where i get them? Sorry, but no.

[tradisrad]

Draganc, 2500 bucks includes everything, including head and all machine work. I don't know about the rest, but my bearings cost about half of yours. Will i tell you where i get them? Sorry, but no.

I think he got his main bearing for about $100...

[Cap'n Krusty]

Considering the fact that 914 cylinder head reconditioning can EASILY exceed $1500, not including valves and springs, it's my opinion that $2000 might be a bit optimistic.
And, as Jake says, you still have 35 year old heat cycled castings.

The Cap'n

[john rogers]

There is a shop in the Venice Beach area, I think, named "NARW" and the owner raced a 2L type four in vintage events for a few years and it made about 120 to 130 HP and had a "stock looking" throttle body, FI brain, injectors, etc. I think the brain was done over by a shop in northern L.A. and used heavier injectors and the throttle body was honed a bit as the engine would easily rev to 7K RPM which is difficult to do if the FI system is stock. I used to have the contact info but it all went with my car when I sold it but that could be a place to start. But as some have said, anything will NOT be cheap!

[Root_Werks]

There is a shop in the Venice Beach area, I think, named "NARW" and the owner raced a 2L type four in vintage events for a few years and it made about 120 to 130 HP and had a "stock looking" throttle body, FI brain, injectors, etc. I think the brain was done over by a shop in northern L.A. and used heavier injectors and the throttle body was honed a bit as the engine would easily rev to 7K RPM which is difficult to do if the FI system is stock. I used to have the contact info but it all went with my car when I sold it but that could be a place to start. But as some have said, anything will NOT be cheap!

Unlikely stock D-Jet trigger points for the injectors would stay accurate at 7k rpm's.

[stugray]

vsg914,

"Will i tell you where i get them? Sorry, but no."

What kind of attitude is that for a forum where people help each other?

I am in the middle of trying to do the same as realred914: "build the best 2.0L D-jet that I can on a reasonable budget".

If I found a good source for parts or a trick to make the D-jet go faster, I would definitely post it....

There are mods that can be made to the ECU and the temp & pressure sensors.....

Maybe I'll tell you.... maybe not ;-).......

http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/

If realred914 is constrained by sticking with the D-jet ECU, then his hands are tied ( as are mine ).

If one can make the mods, then one can install a megasquirt ECU and keep all of the other components the same for less than $500.

Stu

[Bleyseng]

Considering the fact that 914 cylinder head reconditioning can EASILY exceed $1500, not including valves and springs, it's my opinion that $2000 might be a bit optimistic.
And, as Jake says, you still have 35 year old heat cycled castings.

The Cap'n

Even then the old rebuilt heads can and do fail, ask Dave Hunt!

[TheCabinetmaker]

Stu,if i share my source with the world, i would no longer have that source. Do you think Jake, engman, James adams, or mikey would share all their r&d? I think not.

If you read some of my 3000+ post you will see what I share. There are several local guys that use my shop,tools, and my knowledge free of charge. I get parts for them and don't mark them up.

If that gives me an attitude, then yes I have one. Its not my fault if you are not as resouceful as me.

Capn, my heads were in good enough shape, and low enough miles, and my machinist is retired and works from his garage when he feels good enough to work. He doesn't charge much. Sometimes being old and knowing most everyone in town is a good thing!

[realred914]

There is a shop in the Venice Beach area, I think, named "NARW" and the owner raced a 2L type four in vintage events for a few years and it made about 120 to 130 HP and had a "stock looking" throttle body, FI brain, injectors, etc. I think the brain was done over by a shop in northern L.A. and used heavier injectors and the throttle body was honed a bit as the engine would easily rev to 7K RPM which is difficult to do if the FI system is stock. I used to have the contact info but it all went with my car when I sold it but that could be a place to start. But as some have said, anything will NOT be cheap!

Unlikely stock D-Jet trigger points for the injectors would stay accurate at 7k rpm's.

could yo not bend the trigger points spring (or shim it) to increase tension to prevent bounce? (of course the wear blocks would wear faster)

[realred914]

If folks wont share data, please post elsewhere, some of these posts are not about info, there simply ads or boasting, and not at all helpfull to finding out which parts work well on a 2056 cc motor constrained by D-jet. I just want technical info on the components and assembly that make these motors better posted here.

[914werke]

Im confused, you ask for detailed information yet you ignore anecdotal warning by members who have BTDT.
The 30 yr old analog FI *IS* your limiting factor.
Seems you have made up your mind already? What more do you need ?
Visit Brads site, educate yourself, spend your 2500. rebuild your eng. and let us know how it goes?
If you can pry more from some combo or tweeks no one has tried in 30 yrs you'll be all our hero.
(I think) Im like you I understand and like D-Jet. so have made the decision on the motor I posted above to to accept the cap in HP/TQ due to D-Jet, but have been eying DIY PEFI solutions for future application..
I only wish I had a chassis w/o issues that I could mate it to.

Oh.. and there is always the search function

[realred914]

Im confused, you ask for detailed information yet you ignore anecdotal warning by members who have BTDT.
The 30 yr old analog FI *IS* your limiting factor.
Seems you have made up your mind already? What more do you need ?
Visit Brads site, educate yourself, spend your 2500. rebuild your eng. and let us know how it goes?
If you can pry more from some combo or tweeks no one has tried in 30 yrs you'll be all our hero.
(I think) Im like you I understand and like D-Jet. so have made the decision on the motor I posted above to to accept the cap in HP/TQ due to D-Jet, but have been eying DIY PEFI solutions for future application..
I only wish I had a chassis w/o issues that I could mate it to.

Oh.. and there is always the search function

What anecdotal warning Have I ignored?

Yup I want detail on modifications, within the realm of D-jet. but I dont see any warning to which you refer?????

PEFI, what does that mean?????