what have you done with stock FI and performance mods?, quest for a killer D-jet 2056cc motor Options

[HAM Inc]

Here's the info you need for the internals from a DIYer who has been down this road.

My recommendation is
Raby cam and lifters-(9950 or ?)
Porsche swivel feet
CR 9 to 1
tight Deck ht 0.40
42x36 valves w/HD springs
Raby new 914 2.0l heads
balanced everything

Here's the info from a pro with a proven track record for the internals.

2056cc
-KB 96mm P&C
-RAT 9560 cam
-.035 deck height
- LE 180 CNC heads
-8.8:1 CR
-Stock D jet with MPS tuning
-Tangerine Racing header in 1-5/8"

As for the D-Jet tuning there is a lot of info on this forum and some in this thread. As long as you don't try to re-invent the wheel you won't have any trouble getting what you want.

As a cautionary note if your budget for the internals is less than the good parts cost, especially the heads, save your money until you can do it right. These old heads are not very forgiving, and they are critical to good, trouble free performance!

Same goes for the cam and lifters. Aside from possibly getting the wrong lobe specs (despite what the card says), there are a lot of cams out there ground on the wrong blanks, improperly ground and mated to lifters that are not compatible. Buy the good stuff once and be done with it.

And don't forget to have your case decked by a competent machinist familiar with these engines. I assure you it needs it.

[realred914]

Here's the info you need for the internals from a DIYer who has been down this road.

My recommendation is
Raby cam and lifters-(9950 or ?)
Porsche swivel feet
CR 9 to 1
tight Deck ht 0.40
42x36 valves w/HD springs
Raby new 914 2.0l heads
balanced everything

Here's the info from a pro with a proven track record for the internals.

2056cc
-KB 96mm P&C
-RAT 9560 cam
-.035 deck height
- LE 180 CNC heads
-8.8:1 CR
-Stock D jet with MPS tuning
-Tangerine Racing header in 1-5/8"

As for the D-Jet tuning there is a lot of info on this forum and some in this thread. As long as you don't try to re-invent the wheel you won't have any trouble getting what you want.

As a cautionary note if your budget for the internals is less than the good parts cost, especially the heads, save your money until you can do it right. These old heads are not very forgiving, and they are critical to good, trouble free performance!

Same goes for the cam and lifters. Aside from possibly getting the wrong lobe specs (despite what the card says), there are a lot of cams out there ground on the wrong blanks, improperly ground and mated to lifters that are not compatible. Buy the good stuff once and be done with it.

And don't forget to have your case decked by a competent machinist familiar with these engines. I assure you it needs it.

good points, I believe deck of case is being done but will confirm it.

looking at a full flow oil system. does anyone make a fitting to replace the the oil filter flange? I will be doing a remote filter and cooler (retian stock cooler also) it be nice to elimiate the oil filter flange arm thingy with block off plate with ports for supply/return hoses to the remote.

[realred914]

ps my under standing of the 911 swivil feet is that they have longer life and dont tend to deform which can thorw off valve adjustment as the stock feet do. is there any other benifit to them other than this factor?

[draganc]

Draganc, 2500 bucks includes everything, including head and all machine work. I don't know about the rest, but my bearings cost about half of yours. Will i tell you where i get them? Sorry, but no.

i wrote: "...you know that you will spend at least $4-6000 with the engine mods that you want, which will lead you to a max of 120hp..."

keywords 120hp = $4-6k.

i'm glad you can do the job for $2500 but i can't.

i'm posting about my experience and nothing else, and no i don't have +35 years of type 4 experience nor do i have a "...machinist is retired and works from his garage when he feels good enough to work. He doesn't charge much...".

since i learned a lot from this form i thought it would be the proper attitude to return some of my information and experience.

all the work i do on my 914, i do it for fun and because i enjoy it. and no i don't expect pros like jake, the capt'n and others to share all of their secrets, they have to pay thei bills as well.

as far as "...Will i tell you where i get them? Sorry, but no...." - good for you.

here is my secret: i got my main bearings (kolbenschmidt) in germany and with the euro/$ exchange rate they are not cheap. i even offered in the past to get some for club members and i sold a set in the past to a club member.

no further comments...........

[TheCabinetmaker]

J[quote name='draganc' date='Nov 18 2010, 09:01 PM' post='1396028'


no further comments...........
[/quote]

[HAM Inc]

my under standing of the 911 swivil feet is that they have longer life and dont tend to deform which can thorw off valve adjustment as the stock feet do. is there any other benifit to them other than this factor?

The 911 swivel screws eliminate the friction loading at the valve/adjuster interface (if you think the unit loading is high at the cam/lifter just consider what it is at the valve/adjuster with its much smaller contact area) so there is no wear at that interface and therefore valve adjustments hold longer. It also all but eliminates the side loading of the valve which in turn all but eliminates guide wear if the rocker geometry is correct. Reducing guide wear will also contribute to less valve/valve seat wear.

In Bleysing's post he listed the cam he used as a 9950 or ? I'm pretty sure he used a Raby 9550. It is very popular with D-Jet users.

[realred914]

my under standing of the 911 swivil feet is that they have longer life and dont tend to deform which can thorw off valve adjustment as the stock feet do. is there any other benifit to them other than this factor?

The 911 swivel screws eliminate the friction loading at the valve/adjuster interface (if you think the unit loading is high at the cam/lifter just consider what it is at the valve/adjuster with its much smaller contact area) so there is no wear at that interface and therefore valve adjustments hold longer. It also all but eliminates the side loading of the valve which in turn all but eliminates guide wear if the rocker geometry is correct. Reducing guide wear will also contribute to less valve/valve seat wear.

In Bleysing's post he listed the cam he used as a 9950 or ? I'm pretty sure he used a Raby 9550. It is very popular with D-Jet users.

what is the lift and duration on the raby cams that folks are using? i what to get some comparisions on this, will make a chart of varius combos of cams and such.

[Bleyseng]

Good luck finding out that data as a few years ago it was pulled due to some idiot copying it and posting it on his website.

Maybe Jake will email it to you.

[HAM Inc]

what is the lift and duration on the raby cams that folks are using? i what to get some comparisions on this, will make a chart of varius combos of cams and such.

I understand the desire to scrutinize the cam specs, but IMO you can save yourselve a lot of time and trouble and the possiblity of coming to the wrong conclusion about an option by simply letting Jake make the selection for you based on the performance criteria that he draws from you. He won't miss the mark. No one out there has done more R&D with the T4 in general and the D-Jet 2056 in particular.

You can then ask users of the same cam & combo as yours their opinions of the drivability and overall performance before making your final decision.

The combo you have outlined for your engine is a pretty tried and true one with a lot of folks running it. No need to complicate the process. Stastically speaking if you strike out on your own (by that I mean trying unproven components i.e. cam and heads) you are more likely to miss than to hit the target.

BTW, the #'s on a cam card tell very little of the complete picture, and the #'s from at least one very popular manufacturer of some very popular T4 cams are not what they read on a Cam Dr.

And also, Jake won't likely reveal the critical specs of his cam offerings. He clamped down on proprietary data years ago. You will get a card when you purchase the cam with lift and CL info for set-up purposes. Jake has plenty of business. If the fact that the product he is offering has been exhaustively tested and proven correct for a given application isn't enough for a prospective customer then he just lets them go there own way.

[realred914]

what is the lift and duration on the raby cams that folks are using? i what to get some comparisions on this, will make a chart of varius combos of cams and such.

I understand the desire to scrutinze the cam specs, but IMO you can save yourselve a lot of time and trouble and the possiblity of coming to the wrong conclusion about an option by simply letting Jake make the selection for you based on the performance criteria that he draws from you. He won't miss the mark. No one out there has done more R&D with the T4 in general and the D-Jet 2056 in particular.

You can then ask users of the same cam & combo as yours their opinions of the drivability and overall performance before making your final decision.

The combo you have outlined for your engine is a pretty tried and true one with a lot of folks running it. No need to complicate the process. Stastically speaking if you strike out on your own (by that I mean trying unproven components i.e. cam and heads) you are more likely to miss than to hit the target.

BTW, the #'s on a cam card tell very little of the complete picture, and the #'s from at least one very popular manufacturer of some very popular T4 cams are not what they read on a Cam Dr.

i tried getting info from him, it is a no go, he wont recommend any parts or configuration to me. I asked about that. Seems like he dont want to make the sale?????? I can't figure it out with him. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[roadster fan]

Is there no hope to make 120-130 hp with a tuned EFI TIV? Is it the intake runners or the cams or what that are the major hurdle?

The MPS. The issue is with the Djet or Ljet as it is not easily modified/tuned for performance gains. It is an old system that works great in a stock configuration but you are limited to tweaking the MPS. If you went aftermarket EFI the limit is your checkbook and tuning expertise with the type4.

Many have used Megasquirt, SDS, and other aftermarket EFI systems with good success. How ambitious are you? I think post #41 says all you need to know about the combo to use with D-jet.

Jim

[Jake Raby]

what is the lift and duration on the raby cams that folks are using? i what to get some comparisions on this, will make a chart of varius combos of cams and such.

I understand the desire to scrutinze the cam specs, but IMO you can save yourselve a lot of time and trouble and the possiblity of coming to the wrong conclusion about an option by simply letting Jake make the selection for you based on the performance criteria that he draws from you. He won't miss the mark. No one out there has done more R&D with the T4 in general and the D-Jet 2056 in particular.

You can then ask users of the same cam & combo as yours their opinions of the drivability and overall performance before making your final decision.

The combo you have outlined for your engine is a pretty tried and true one with a lot of folks running it. No need to complicate the process. Stastically speaking if you strike out on your own (by that I mean trying unproven components i.e. cam and heads) you are more likely to miss than to hit the target.

BTW, the #'s on a cam card tell very little of the complete picture, and the #'s from at least one very popular manufacturer of some very popular T4 cams are not what they read on a Cam Dr.

i tried getting info from him, it is a no go, he wont recommend any parts or configuration to me. I asked about that. Seems like he dont want to make the sale?????? I can't figure it out with him. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I don't operate conventionally.. My arrangements aren't conventional and due to that they are not as thoroughly understood by general enthusiasts as they need to be.

Here you place the order, fill out my questionnaire and have a phone consultation with me and i choose the cam of mine that you NEED, you will then understand.

Sorry, if you are looking for a bunch of numbers and a one line description of what a cam is supposed to that you can choose from, you'll not get that here.. Thats just not what I believe in or how I operate. Doing things in the method I prescribe is how I have pleased thousands of people on these forums, and it damn sure wasn't easy. I understand my camshafts better than anyone.

The way I design cams is much different, you can't compare my offerings to others without comparing apples to oranges.

No, making a sale isn't important enough for me to not follow our procedures or release information freely to anyone who requests it, before they make a purchase. I'd love to help you and it isn't complicated at all after the order is placed.

[Bleyseng]

Is there no hope to make 120-130 hp with a tuned EFI TIV? Is it the intake runners or the cams or what that are the major hurdle?

The MPS. The issue is with the Djet or Ljet as it is not easily modified/tuned for performance gains. It is an old system that works great in a stock configuration but you are limited to tweaking the MPS. If you went aftermarket EFI the limit is your checkbook and tuning expertise with the type4.

Many have used Megasquirt, SDS, and other aftermarket EFI systems with good success. How ambitious are you? I think post #41 says all you need to know about the combo to use with D-jet.

Jim

They are both a challenge to adjust to "tune" but it can be done. In a way since they are the only way to set the AFR easier then a Modern EFI with nearly infinite options.