What to Look For When Buying a 911 Front Suspension Complete, Caliper to Caliper Options

[EdArango]

so I'm getting ready to buy a 911 5 lug set up for my car. Anything special I need to look for or is there anything that I need to stay away from? Planning on doing this though Los Angeles Dismantlers.

Thanks for the heads up.
ED

[SirAndy]

Anything special I need to look for or is there anything that I need to stay away from?

The later the better.

Anything up to late '80s ('89?) will fit. I bought a complete front-end from a '84 Carrera for my car some 8 years ago or so.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

PS: Maybe i'm stating the obvious here but DO NOT buy a front-end from a car that was hit in the front!

PPS: Make sure the a-arms don't have any obvious signs of damage and aren't bend.

[IronHillRestorations]

The later the better.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Although I'm a Bilstein fan (they have the green housing), Boge or Koni type struts can accept any kind of insert, whereas the Bilsteins only accept Bilstein inserts.

[drgchapman]

Anything special I need to look for or is there anything that I need to stay away from?

The later the better.

Anything up to late '80s ('89?) will fit. I bought a complete front-end from a '84 Carrera for my car some 8 years ago or so.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

PS: Maybe i'm stating the obvious here but DO NOT buy a front-end from a car that was hit in the front!

PPS: Make sure the a-arms don't have any obvious signs of damage and aren't bend.

Andy is Absolutely spot on.
I have 86 front ends on both my cars, bolts right up and works like a dream. You'll be amazed at how much better the car drives with the 911 front end. Might want to up the spring rate in the back depending on your ride and handling needs/wants. I'd recommend the Elephant poly bronze bushings for the front at least, again really tightens up the handling.

[J P Stein]

They are all pretty much the same if you insist on 3 1/2 caliper mount spacing and I would. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) The 19mm T-bars from the 911 are a good addition to a 914, get em'
I too like Bilstein.....IMO the best way to go. You'll want new inserts.
The brake calipers available for the 3.5 inch mounts are A, S , and late A (Carrera). Rotors widely available....I'd suggest new.

A "wanted to buy" ad on the Pelican 911 used parts classifieds should get you a much better buy than a bone yard.

[Eric_Shea]

With all due respect, I strongly disagree... the later is "not" the better.

It really depends on how you chose to use your car. Later front suspensions, the Carrera as a prime example, will add upwards of 20 plus pounds to your front end. Why would you want to add 20 lbs. of unsprung weight to your front end when you don't have to?

Everyone who has weighed in has:

1) forgotten to ask you what engine, wheels, tires, flares, driving style etc. All of those things can play a big part in what to look for.

Everyone who has weighed in has:

2) huge sixes.

Regardless of engine size though... the 911SC and Carrera calipers are the heaviest calipers ever put on a 911. Porsche finally corrected that "problem" in 1989.

Find Excellence's article on the 3 silver 71(?) 911's. Read what they say about the 911T's suspension. The 914-6 had a T suspension.

Read through here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=105728

and here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=104276

Depending on you car, your engine and your driving style... this is a moving target not to be confused with "latest is better". My recommendation would be the early 70's T suspension with the 3" for 95% of the applications. If a bigger caliper is required the lightest Brembo will bolt right on and give the same braking performance of those 9 1/2 lb. beasts.

This is a 2200lb car we're talking about.

[SirAndy]

This is a 2200lb car we're talking about.

Hey, are you calling me fat? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)


All good points there, i didn't think about the caliper weight.

I do like big brakes with my huge six ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[John]

Not only caliper weight. Ever consider rotor weight? My 930 calipers don't weigh much, but the rotors do...... Of course they do stop well.


(2) advanced (instructors) DE driver car and we run back to back sessions........

[IronHillRestorations]

I should have clarified, that I typically don't use the entire front suspension, just the struts. I've always just used the stock, later style 914 A arms with the 911 struts, and the aluminum cross member when I can find them.

[rfuerst911sc]

I have a 3.0 in my GT clone and I added " T " struts when I did my conversion. I kept the 914 A-arms and torsion bars but did the poly-bronze bushings. I'm running M calipers on all four corners with a 19mm master cylinder. The car stops very well. Could it stop better ? Yes it could but I base that on the brake pads I'm using which are plain jane Textar. I have a set of Porterfields R4s from Eric that I'm sure will step it up in performance. I bought Boge housings so I can run Boge, Koni or Bilstein inserts which is a nice option to have. With 993 brake air deflectors I can't imagine too many situations where this brake setup won't perform under. I do have a set of S calipers that I might try to talk Eric into trading for those Brembo's if I ever feel the need to upgrade to more than what I have. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I must clarify that so far I have only driven on the street and one autocross to date so I have not tested the brakes to the max. Once I start doing DE's at Road Atlanta I'll have a better idea of the capability of my brake setup.

[JoeSharp]

I'm glad to see that people are thinking a little more about this. It's just my opinion but I don't like the 911 A arms that have the sway bar mounted on them. Sure it lowers the CG but it adds unsprung weight and are not adjustable. The vented discs look really kool but also add unsprung weight too. I stand a better chance of heating up the disc on my street car than my A/X car. I had a set of the small Brembos on the race car and removed them because they were too strong, and without going to a dual master cylinder system there is no way to balance them.
Also I had to reject one of my A arms because I could not move the ball joint by hand but when the car was driven it moved around in the A arm.

[Eric_Shea]

The vented discs look really kool but also add unsprung weight too.

In the rear for sure... up front it might be a wash.

A 914 front rotor is 14lbs. 8oz. A vented 911 front rotor is 11lbs. 8oz. I don't have a pair of 911 hubs here to weight (well, I do but they're all on cars at the moment) but 3lbs. is probably close. I'd also be willing to speculate that the 914 strut is a tad heavier than the 911 counterpart due to that large cast arm on the spindle.

Joe brings up another good point, whatever you do to the brake "system" up front should also be considered in the rear. The word "system" is important because it is just that and should be looked at as a whole... which is why I embarked upon the 5-lug thread.

There are simple "do this" or "do that" answers to the 5-lug equation. Most people don't like $ome of the outcome$. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[michaelt55]

thanks Eric...so question to you...so with my V8 with the BMW calipers in front, would a T or late model work best for me? My currently system is:

-H AT H Carrera 19mm adj front sway bar
-Addco 16mm rear sway bar
-140# rear springs (100 stock)
-Stock front torsion bar
-Koni adj front and Koni H.D. rear shock absorbers
-BMW 320i front brake conversion
-Stock Porsche rear calipers
-All four calipers have stainless steel liners and completely rebuilt.
-Adj proporsioning valve
-19mm 911 master cylinder
-All rotors have been crossdrilled
-All flex lines are braided stainless steel
-Pagio performance brake pads, all four wheels

would I benefit much from changing to 911 total system? Just would ask your opinion..I know the brembos would help

[Eric_Shea]

Michael, Here are my thoughts on where you would benifit.

911 T Struts:

* Vented rotors

* Brembo Calipers would be about 5lbs lighter "each" than the 320i (same pads etc. just not cast iron pigs) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Regarding the rest:

* SS liners - In my almost 10 years of building (thousands of) calipers, I've never seen the need to sleeve an ATE caliper, and that would make for no performance difference... just a lighter wallet.

* Adjustable valve - Stock bias is set by the calipers with "Full Flow" going to the rears. An adjustable valve will only make this worse by further limiting fluid to the rears (unless run wide open so... why get an adjustable valve?). This is compounded by the larger 48mm pistons you now have up front. So... Heavy front bias now and a valve that further limits the fluid to the rears. If you no longer have the stock pressure regulator, you are endanger of locking your rears up in a panic stop (unless your bias valve has basically taken them out of the equation... that being the case, you're missing 30% of your daily effective stopping power). You really need a valve that controls the amount of fluid to the fronts...

* Rear Calipers - I would be on the hunt for 914-6 rear calipers or Ferrari Dino/308 rear calipers. Believe it or not, the Ferrari versions can be less expensive. Early Dino's are the same as 914-6, Later 308's need a bleeder mod. This would give you a proper 38mm piston to re-balance your bias to factory specs and a larger AP31 pad size.

* Various other suspension bits - All good stuff from what I see but won't factor much into brake bias.

* Further gains can be made by changing to a 911 or 944 rear drive system with the better CV's for your V8 application. Read through that 5-lug thread I posted the link to. (suggestion made by guessing that you have redrilled 914-4 hubs and stock 914 CV's... coule be wrong. Assumption based upon redrilled 914-4 rotors etc.)

Hope that helps.

E.

P.S. Check your stainless lines often. If they go, they tend to take you with them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[JoeSharp]

Joe brings up another good point,

Thanks Eric, I have probably looking too deep as I have been looking at the Oz's. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[EdArango]

Just to bring everyone up to date...My plan is a 3.6 conversion into my 1973 914. The car will have steel flares from AA. I've already received my stiffing kit, motor mount, oil tank, oil cooler with fans, shroud, and misc. bits. I have already started all of the welding (rust repairs). This is enough to get me going for now...more to come...way more.

ED

[Eric_Shea]

Sounds like a cool project.

I'd get either T-Struts with Brembos or SC Boge's with S-Calipers. Both would allow you your choice of inserts and both would have the same basic piston and pad size. The T assembly would be lighter and less expensive.

Look for Ferrari Dino or 308 calipers for the rear. 308 calipers would be vented rotor ready but, they would require the bleeder mod.

Good luck.

BTW: There's a set of T-Struts in the classifieds for a great price if I recall.

[MrHyde]

Quick question if i may... Are the T struts already appropriate size for vented rotors or are they still solid rotors???

[Eric_Shea]

T-Struts are for vented rotors. Get the early 70's stuff.

[MrHyde]

Is there a 911 strut that is still solid disk ?