Clutch Tube Repair-Meatball style, Daily driver needs a CT fix w/o welding Options

[Cap'n Krusty]

Anything other than a properly welded repair is not a repair, it's a kluge, sometimes called a "white trash repair". Do it right, do it once.

The Cap'n

[Spoke]

Here's my white trash clutch tube repair. It held for 7 years until I removed the engine this year to properly weld the tube. A little bit of angle iron to hold the u-bolt. The only fabrication was to cut the angle iron and drill 2 holes to hold the u-bolt.



I repaired the 2 inside welds when I did this.

[biosurfer1]

If you choose to go at it yourself, I have a welder you're welcome to use.

FYI though, I usually take mine to Mark for major repairs (and repairs I just don't feel like doing)...give him a call, his rates are very reasonable for what you get.

[anderssj]

Anything other than a properly welded repair is not a repair, it's a kluge, sometimes called a "white trash repair". Do it right, do it once.

The Cap'n

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

"Anything that’s mended is but patched."

Shakespeare, "Twelfth Night," Act 1, Scene 5

[Eric_Shea]

Sorry... I just HATE threads like this. People showing other people how to screw up a really cool car.

What would you do if your water heater exploded. JB weld it until you can fix it properly? Duct tape it back together? Cut holes in it with a cut-off wheel so you can stick a hose clamp on it? No. You'd find the time and the money to fix it right so you could have a hot shower tomorrow.

Without even calling Mark, we've already decided that would be "too much money". How much is your time worth people? How much will it cost to repair the damage caused by bastardizing what is very quickly becoming a classic Porsche icon?

Seriously? There's a professional basically "in your neighborhood" that is intimately familiar with your car and you're not willing to take on a couple hours of labor at $XX per hour to fix this properly?

Sorry... this isn't against the thread starter or anyone in specific herein. I'm just tired of seeing this stupid stuff not only being proposed but "recommended". Then, when you guys buy a tub or a car from someone, you gleefully post all of these pictures, totally "SHOCKED" at what the DAPO did.

Go through the attic, basement, garage. Find something to sell on eBay.

I'm willing to PayPal Mark $20.00 right now to help out. Merry Christmas or whatever it is you celebrate this time of year. Anybody else willing to send a couple bucks to save a 914 from being butchered?

[jd74914]

I don't really see the issue in a quick fix to get back on the road today. My 914 has seen plenty of things like this that just couldn't be done right at the time and were then fixed a few months afterwards. IMHO its all a matter of situation.

If you need to get to work tomorrow you need to get to work tomorrow. That said, there were a few months last year when I didn't have the time to troubleshoot the FI and manually powered it through the coil to run the car. Oooops. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Spoke]

Sorry... I just HATE threads like this. People showing other people how to screw up a really cool car.

What would you do if your water heater exploded. JB weld it until you can fix it properly? Duct tape it back together? Cut holes in it with a cut-off wheel so you can stick a hose clamp on it? No. You'd find the time and the money to fix it right so you could have a hot shower tomorrow.

Without even calling Mark, we've already decided that would be "too much money". How much is your time worth people? How much will it cost to repair the damage caused by bastardizing what is very quickly becoming a classic Porsche icon?

Seriously? There's a professional basically "in your neighborhood" that is intimately familiar with your car and you're not willing to take on a couple hours of labor at $XX per hour to fix this properly?

Sorry... this isn't against the thread starter or anyone in specific herein. I'm just tired of seeing this stupid stuff not only being proposed but "recommended". Then, when you guys buy a tub or a car from someone, you gleefully post all of these pictures, totally "SHOCKED" at what the DAPO did.

Go through the attic, basement, garage. Find something to sell on eBay.

I'm willing to PayPal Mark $20.00 right now to help out. Merry Christmas or whatever it is you celebrate this time of year. Anybody else willing to send a couple bucks to save a 914 from being butchered?

You mention some interesting points that elicit a lot of feelings on both sides of the argument.

JB Weld for the water heater:
All situations and details need to be considered when doing any quick-fix.

If you had this choice: JB weld or turn the heater off until a new unit could be purchased. Bottom line is keep the unit in service until a permanent fix can be done.

Last year my neighbor experienced a pin hole rupture of a main water line. Husband was on a biz trip. A neighbor came over and used teflon tape to patch the hole. I came over 2 days later and cut out the ruptured pipe and soldered in new pipe. Choice was turn water off for days, call plumber for $$$, or use teflon tape until the husband came home or I fixed it correctly. I charged her nothing. Good or bad move with the teflon tape?

How much is my time worth?
Assuming you mean my off-work time (evenings, weekends); my time is worth $0. If I spend an hour doing the quick fix shown in my previous post using stuff around the house, I still have the same amount of $$ in my wallet; no more, no less. I could have spent that time watching TV or surfing the web. No gain, no loss.

Not willing to pay $$ per hour for correct fix and show stupid stuff:
Hell yeah! I didn't buy a 914 for $3K cause I wanted a perfect car. I did it cause I like the 914 and have 2 kids in college and can't afford a perfect 914 for $10-15K or to pay someone hundreds of dollars for a repair I can do for less. Maybe I can't fix it properly now but will fix it right in the future.

I have 6 cars to maintain and do most of the work myself to reduce overall repair costs. If someone doesn't have the spare cash to fix something correctly right now, then they need options to get through a situation at lower cost or to get the car back on the road.

Keep in mind we're talking about something non-safety related unlike brake components, suspension, or lights. Safety items should always be taken care of properly.

My clutch tube temporary repair cost me about $3 and kept the car on the road for 7 years. Now I own a welder and with the engine out, I was able to fix the other significant rust in the engine compartment. The firewall was rusted and ripped right up to the one fuel line. The fuel line needed to be removed to weld this properly.

Had I taken it to someone then to fix it correctly; first of all, it wasn't road worthy cause of the clutch tube. So I would have had to trailer or drag it to a shop. If I remove the engine first, then definitely trailer. Would have to rent a trailer; several hours for repair; remove/replace engine, fuel line. Even if it was 8 hr at $75/hr: $600. My $3 repair was exactly the ticket for me.

Each situation needs to be analyzed separately. Maybe welding a washer is ok for a clutch tube repair. The tunnel still needs to be opened to fix the front side. A washer would never had done well for my rusted mess.

The main reason why I never showed anyone the angle iron/clamp fix I did on my clutch tube until I removed it was because I knew I'd be roasted by those who say the only way to fix something is to fix it correctly like I would. Not everyone has the spare cash, local 914 shops or local friends, tools, or skills to do the correct fixes.

We should have tolerance to accept and acknowledge all kinds of fixes as long as they are done with safety in mind. When we lose the tolerance, we become elitist and move closer to the 911 gold chain club.

[wgwhitney2]

even better.
Remove the middle seat pad.
Remove the cover.
Hold the tube when you shift...

You could probably setup a pair of vice grips through the inner tunnel opening to hold it in place.

Rich

Oh yeah, that'd be good. How am I going to eat my Big Mac if I gotta grab the tube when I shift?

[wgwhitney2]

Sorry... I just HATE threads like this. People showing other people how to screw up a really cool car.

What would you do if your water heater exploded. JB weld it until you can fix it properly? Duct tape it back together? Cut holes in it with a cut-off wheel so you can stick a hose clamp on it? No. You'd find the time and the money to fix it right so you could have a hot shower tomorrow.

Without even calling Mark, we've already decided that would be "too much money". How much is your time worth people? How much will it cost to repair the damage caused by bastardizing what is very quickly becoming a classic Porsche icon?

Seriously? There's a professional basically "in your neighborhood" that is intimately familiar with your car and you're not willing to take on a couple hours of labor at $XX per hour to fix this properly?

Sorry... this isn't against the thread starter or anyone in specific herein. I'm just tired of seeing this stupid stuff not only being proposed but "recommended". Then, when you guys buy a tub or a car from someone, you gleefully post all of these pictures, totally "SHOCKED" at what the DAPO did.

Go through the attic, basement, garage. Find something to sell on eBay.

I'm willing to PayPal Mark $20.00 right now to help out. Merry Christmas or whatever it is you celebrate this time of year. Anybody else willing to send a couple bucks to save a 914 from being butchered?

You mention some interesting points that elicit a lot of feelings on both sides of the argument.

JB Weld for the water heater:
All situations and details need to be considered when doing any quick-fix.

If you had this choice: JB weld or turn the heater off until a new unit could be purchased. Bottom line is keep the unit in service until a permanent fix can be done.

Last year my neighbor experienced a pin hole rupture of a main water line. Husband was on a biz trip. A neighbor came over and used teflon tape to patch the hole. I came over 2 days later and cut out the ruptured pipe and soldered in new pipe. Choice was turn water off for days, call plumber for $$$, or use teflon tape until the husband came home or I fixed it correctly. I charged her nothing. Good or bad move with the teflon tape?

How much is my time worth?
Assuming you mean my off-work time (evenings, weekends); my time is worth $0. If I spend an hour doing the quick fix shown in my previous post using stuff around the house, I still have the same amount of $$ in my wallet; no more, no less. I could have spent that time watching TV or surfing the web. No gain, no loss.

Not willing to pay $$ per hour for correct fix and show stupid stuff:
Hell yeah! I didn't buy a 914 for $3K cause I wanted a perfect car. I did it cause I like the 914 and have 2 kids in college and can't afford a perfect 914 for $10-15K or to pay someone hundreds of dollars for a repair I can do for less. Maybe I can't fix it properly now but will fix it right in the future.

I have 6 cars to maintain and do most of the work myself to reduce overall repair costs. If someone doesn't have the spare cash to fix something correctly right now, then they need options to get through a situation at lower cost or to get the car back on the road.

Keep in mind we're talking about something non-safety related unlike brake components, suspension, or lights. Safety items should always be taken care of properly.

My clutch tube temporary repair cost me about $3 and kept the car on the road for 7 years. Now I own a welder and with the engine out, I was able to fix the other significant rust in the engine compartment. The firewall was rusted and ripped right up to the one fuel line. The fuel line needed to be removed to weld this properly.

Had I taken it to someone then to fix it correctly; first of all, it wasn't road worthy cause of the clutch tube. So I would have had to trailer or drag it to a shop. If I remove the engine first, then definitely trailer. Would have to rent a trailer; several hours for repair; remove/replace engine, fuel line. Even if it was 8 hr at $75/hr: $600. My $3 repair was exactly the ticket for me.

Each situation needs to be analyzed separately. Maybe welding a washer is ok for a clutch tube repair. The tunnel still needs to be opened to fix the front side. A washer would never had done well for my rusted mess.

The main reason why I never showed anyone the angle iron/clamp fix I did on my clutch tube until I removed it was because I knew I'd be roasted by those who say the only way to fix something is to fix it correctly like I would. Not everyone has the spare cash, local 914 shops or local friends, tools, or skills to do the correct fixes.

We should have tolerance to accept and acknowledge all kinds of fixes as long as they are done with safety in mind. When we lose the tolerance, we become elitist and move closer to the 911 gold chain club.

Wow. This is all great stuff. Thank you all.

Eric, I appreciate your passion, and am in total agreement with you on all your points. However, I am going to disappoint you and rig up the very best Rio Linda-white trash "there it's fixed" solution I can. I am thrilled to own a piece of automotive iconography that every "old" guy and middle schooler I roll by gives me a thumbs up on. One of the things, in my opinion, that makes it so iconic is that you CAN successfully apply these kinds of "mendings" to the car to keep it rolling.

It's precisely because its NOT a $120,000 space-ship quality rolling cathedral to technology that I love it! Before I bought the 914 in 1991, I was really looking hard for a 1968 Triumph Spitfire or GT6! That'll give you an idea of how nuts I am.

Again, thank you all for your input, offers, concerns, disdain, and defense. Brett, we ought get some coffee locally somewhere between Rocklin and Roseville some time.

Bill

[914werke]

Hmmm. Ive seen all manner of "repairs" on this area.
In fact I have a bag of 3 or 4 specialty brackets that Ive encountered that are a section of heavy gauge U or Square Tube with unequal sides. The longer extendes under the floor pan and is screwed in place, the upper section is notched & drilled to allow the tube to fit through
Because I found a few of these identical setups Im wondered if some outfit producing them specifically?
Trust me Im not advocating them, but they did the job.
If some one want one (or more) let me know (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[wgwhitney2]

Here's what I did. We'll see if it'll work. Since I didn't really have a large sheet metal repair, I opted to attempt to take the pulling power from the clutch cable off the rear clutch tube weld and the clutch tube altogether, and transfer it to a larger area across the firewall.

Once the JB weld has cured I will attach the cable back up and see if things have worked out as I envisioned.

I have included two "before" pics and two "afters" showing the abomination.

Thanks again for all of your interest and input!

Bill

[wgwhitney2]

Anything other than a properly welded repair is not a repair, it's a kluge, sometimes called a "white trash repair". Do it right, do it once.

The Cap'n

Thanks Cap'n. I agree. However, I found these definitions of "Kluge" amusing and comforting...

...In fact, the TMRC Dictionary defined "kludge" as "a crock that works".

3. Something that works for the wrong reason.[b]

[SirAndy]

I opted to attempt to take the pulling power from the clutch cable off the rear clutch tube weld and the clutch tube altogether, and transfer it to a larger area across the firewall.

I don't think the rear is the weak spot. In my experience, the rear only starts to break once the front of the clutch tube has come lose ...

Did you check the front part? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[wgwhitney2]

I opted to attempt to take the pulling power from the clutch cable off the rear clutch tube weld and the clutch tube altogether, and transfer it to a larger area across the firewall.

I don't think the rear is the weak spot. In my experience, the rear only starts to break once the front of the clutch tube has come lose ...

Did you check the front part? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Yes I looked there too, expecting that I would find a broken front, but it is still intact.

I will take another look at it tomorrow to see if I can pry it up any.

But if I remove the pulling force from the back weld with my "creation" and spread it across the whole firewall, will that then reduce the tube's contribution to nothing more that a way to keep the cable from tangling with the shift linkage or accelerator cable?

The whole set-up reminds me of a Ten-Speed bike rear brake system. If you lost a frame hard-point, then you had to lock the cable housing down or reweld the hard-point. Same thing here, except welding this up properly is much more involved.

[sean_v8_914]

I must agree w Eric. often times labor costs are increased as a result of a previous bandaid. you pay me to weld it but now I have to spend time grinding off all the JB. I must fix the hacked up metal where the U clamp was and I have to fix a dicked up clutch tube. then I have to pull out the fire wall where it too colapsed as a result of some patch that was pushing on all the cracks.....now the throttle cable exit is also in need of attention at the fire wall...that is alot of additional labor cost. that is more added cost than the original correct fix solution

[JeffBowlsby]

This is the best way I have seen to repair the front clutch tube. No need to hack into the center tunnel. Plug welds in holes drilled through the center tunnel wall. Use care not to burn through the clutch tube wall which would impair cable movement.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[wgwhitney2]

Alright, already. I just emailed Mark B. at Original Customs to please give me a quote.

[McMark]

Whoa, I just opened this thread (once I got Bill's email). I hadn't opened this thread because the title sounded like pictures of someone's home-brew repair and I wasn't interested in seeing another round of those.

But here's my take on this repair. Restoring it back to factory original, would involve:
1. removing the clutch tube entirely (I agree with Andy that it's probably broken at the front) and drain the fuel from the system
2. removing the brazing material
3. fixing the base metal
4. reinstalling the tube and brazing it into place

But I realize that's a lot of work and would run somewhere in the $400-$500 range. So the only suitable 'cheap' repair, IMHO, is to use the large washer technique. It's a bit dangerous because the fuel lines are right there. But it's a solid repair, it's relatively unobtrusive, and it should last 'forever'. Something like that is around 1.5 hours and in the $100 neighborhood.

As I mentioned, I agree with SirAndy that your front is probably snapped as well and needs to be repaired. Here is an example of the absolute WORST way to repair it:

It is necessary to reweld by cutting a door in front of the shifter and placing the tube in the proper position before rewelding

I use a more refined technique, posted by Jeff Bowlsby above. But carefully drilling holes in the side of the center tunnel you can reweld the tube extremely effectively without cutting a big-ass 'door'. It's faster, cleaner, and just plain smarter. This repair is only about 30 minutes (unless you have a center console in place).

All told, something like this is around $150 -$200 to repair assuming there are no big surprises along the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[wgwhitney2]

Whoa, I just opened this thread (once I got Bill's email). I hadn't opened this thread because the title sounded like pictures of someone's home-brew repair and I wasn't interested in seeing another round of those.

But here's my take on this repair. Restoring it back to factory original, would involve:
1. removing the clutch tube entirely (I agree with Andy that it's probably broken at the front) and drain the fuel from the system
2. removing the brazing material
3. fixing the base metal
4. reinstalling the tube and brazing it into place

But I realize that's a lot of work and would run somewhere in the $400-$500 range. So the only suitable 'cheap' repair, IMHO, is to use the large washer technique. It's a bit dangerous because the fuel lines are right there. But it's a solid repair, it's relatively unobtrusive, and it should last 'forever'. Something like that is around 1.5 hours and in the $100 neighborhood.

As I mentioned, I agree with SirAndy that your front is probably snapped as well and needs to be repaired. Here is an example of the absolute WORST way to repair it:

It is necessary to reweld by cutting a door in front of the shifter and placing the tube in the proper position before rewelding

I use a more refined technique, posted by Jeff Bowlsby above. But carefully drilling holes in the side of the center tunnel you can reweld the tube extremely effectively without cutting a big-ass 'door'. It's faster, cleaner, and just plain smarter. This repair is only about 30 minutes (unless you have a center console in place).

All told, something like this is around $150 -$200 to repair assuming there are no big surprises along the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Thanks Mark. I will be back at you.

[detoxcowboy]

Sorry... I just HATE threads like this. People showing other people how to screw up a really cool car.

What would you do if your water heater exploded. JB weld it until you can fix it properly? Duct tape it back together? Cut holes in it with a cut-off wheel so you can stick a hose clamp on it? No. You'd find the time and the money to fix it right so you could have a hot shower tomorrow.

Without even calling Mark, we've already decided that would be "too much money". How much is your time worth people? How much will it cost to repair the damage caused by bastardizing what is very quickly becoming a classic Porsche icon?

Seriously? There's a professional basically "in your neighborhood" that is intimately familiar with your car and you're not willing to take on a couple hours of labor at $XX per hour to fix this properly?

Sorry... this isn't against the thread starter or anyone in specific herein. I'm just tired of seeing this stupid stuff not only being proposed but "recommended". Then, when you guys buy a tub or a car from someone, you gleefully post all of these pictures, totally "SHOCKED" at what the DAPO did.

Go through the attic, basement, garage. Find something to sell on eBay.

I'm willing to PayPal Mark $20.00 right now to help out. Merry Christmas or whatever it is you celebrate this time of year. Anybody else willing to send a couple bucks to save a 914 from being butchered?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) At the very least have the courage to tell the buyer when you sell it what you did.. Nothing against anything but if you do it be proud of it..