EFI for 1k, programable Options

[r_towle]

back from the past....

Have the prices come down yet?

[rhodyguy]

if the linkage isn't right you'll have the SAME nagging issues. software and no amount of money thrown at a system will cure them. i think closer to $3k is what the full meal deal will run when all is said and done.

[McMark]

Nope. But MicroSquirt gets you an ECU for $300 and it's what's running my Turbo 1.7.

[914forme]

You could also use old 80s GM EFI, the port injection stuff, is simple, a MAP, TPS, AIT, CTS, and a feed for the trigger off a dizzy. A few hours at a Pick and pull you have your stuff. Another couple hours of dyno time with a person that knows how to program this stuff and your done. LOL thats as cheap as it gets.

Or build your own intake, with single TB, is by far the easiest. I have used Motorcycle TBs off a Ducati 1200cc units. You have to get the manifold spacing right. Cut weld tip, or build custom manifolds, not as had as you might think. You can do it out of fiberglass and carbon fiber. With a little bit of foam as the core. You design them form the inside out. Build the runners out of foam, build the mounts out of Al plate, drill all our holes etc... Glue the runners to the plates, and then wrap the foam with packing tape. And epoxy, and glass them up. a couple layers of fiberglass then wrap in carbon. Very lite part, and not bad if you want to build a custom intake. Yhn gut the foam, its a lost casting method. Great for one off parts terrible for production.

If it was me, an your dead set of ITBs. I would go motorcycle, custom intake, and then use a Microsquirt. They are rugged prebuilt, limited, but pretty nice package.

Or if you want to learn, efi your lawn mower or other small engine. a four stroke 2 cylinder engine will give you all the same issues as your 914 engine. In some ways even more. And if you blow it up its not as bad as dumping a type-4 engine.

Or get a cheap beater car that is EFI, rip out the factory ECU, and install, Micro, Mega, SDS, HalTech, and find it used.

Megasquirt even makes a PnP unit, which is not bad way to learn into a factory engine.

[1stworks]

You could also use old 80s GM EFI, the port injection stuff, is simple, a MAP, TPS, AIT, CTS, and a feed for the trigger off a dizzy. A few hours at a Pick and pull you have your stuff. Another couple hours of dyno time with a person that knows how to program this stuff and your done. LOL thats as cheap as it gets.

Or build your own intake, with single TB, is by far the easiest. I have used Motorcycle TBs off a Ducati 1200cc units. You have to get the manifold spacing right. Cut weld tip, or build custom manifolds, not as had as you might think. You can do it out of fiberglass and carbon fiber. With a little bit of foam as the core. You design them form the inside out. Build the runners out of foam, build the mounts out of Al plate, drill all our holes etc... Glue the runners to the plates, and then wrap the foam with packing tape. And epoxy, and glass them up. a couple layers of fiberglass then wrap in carbon. Very lite part, and not bad if you want to build a custom intake. Yhn gut the foam, its a lost casting method. Great for one off parts terrible for production.

If it was me, an your dead set of ITBs. I would go motorcycle, custom intake, and then use a Microsquirt. They are rugged prebuilt, limited, but pretty nice package.

Or if you want to learn, efi your lawn mower or other small engine. a four stroke 2 cylinder engine will give you all the same issues as your 914 engine. In some ways even more. And if you blow it up its not as bad as dumping a type-4 engine.

Or get a cheap beater car that is EFI, rip out the factory ECU, and install, Micro, Mega, SDS, HalTech, and find it used.

Megasquirt even makes a PnP unit, which is not bad way to learn into a factory engine.

Good stuff!!!

[2mAn]

on my watercooled 1.6 build Im using CBR600F4i throttle bodies, and megasquirt. I got the ITBs for $45 shipped. Im sure I'll be under $1000 when its all said and done. If I were to go with a programmable EFI setup for an aircooled motor, I would be looking at Microsquirt.

[ablesnead]

Mario at Vdubengineering has the whole kit...or a piece at the time like I am buying it with basic conservative maps installed ..uses the ms or micro squirt..cb itbs...real nice fuel rails ect....trigger kit for crankfire and cop is 140.00...made of stainless looks nice....vw guy doesnt have a 914 but uses type 4s in vws...

[ablesnead]

the dubshop.net my bad

[Sfreeman615]

Micro Squirt:

http://www.useasydocs.com/quickstart.htm

[0396]

Very informative!

[thelogo]

Does it exist yet?

Ideally, 1k for ITB's, EFI and harness.

Anyone...and no Megasquirt please..

Looking for something to start with...then like any good drug, get hooked and pay more to play.

Rich

I think the idtb are not ness
The cleanest setup I've seen was taken off a vw.rabbit
And put in a 914 , so if I were doing it ( never happen as long as my d,jet keeps goin)
Id go to pick apart , get a rabbit fuel injection system and I'm sure I'd stay on budget
Over all this new fangled high tech b,s


Shout out to the cheap sob





" who do you think you are ,mickey spillane , your not a writer
Your a killer. Yes sir , a killer !

[0396]

[quote name='914forme' date='Mar 28 2014, 09:56 AM' post='2017248']
You could also use old 80s GM EFI, the port injection stuff, is simple, a MAP, TPS, AIT, CTS, and a feed for the trigger off a dizzy. A few hours at a Pick and pull you have your stuff. Another couple hours of dyno time with a person that knows how to program this stuff and your done. LOL thats as cheap as it gets."

First of all, I have next to no real knowledge on this modern FI stuff.

Regards to the above suggestion....that's exactly what I'm trying to do now.
I've been talked into trying to adapt a Honda Civic ODB1 ECU to run on my new type 4 engine.
I've search and found out that Mark produces a "trigger " wheel for the fuel injection.
If he reads this posting, I have a question for him.
Can I simply utilize that trigger to communicate / fire off the injectors?
You see...I do mean I have no knowledge.

Thanks for any future input.

[0396]

[quote name='914forme' date='Mar 28 2014, 09:56 AM' post='2017248']
You could also use old 80s GM EFI, the port injection stuff, is simple, a MAP, TPS, AIT, CTS, and a feed for the trigger off a dizzy. A few hours at a Pick and pull you have your stuff. Another couple hours of dyno time with a person that knows how to program this stuff and your done. LOL thats as cheap as it gets."

First of all, I have next to no real knowledge on this modern FI stuff.

Regards to the above suggestion....that's exactly what I'm trying to do now.
I've been talked into trying to adapt a Honda Civic ODB1 ECU to run on my new type 4 engine.
I've search and found out that Mark produces a "trigger " wheel for the fuel injection.
If he reads this posting, I have a question for him.
Can I simply utilize that trigger to communicate / fire off the injectors?
You see...I do mean I have no knowledge.

Thanks for any future input.......sorry as my finger was too fast...thus the double post.

[914forme]

Okay this should be fun.

If your the kind that learns by doing then here is my suggestion.

Pickup a Megasquirt Kit, build the dang thing, its not hard, take your time follow the instructions.

Then pickup One of these and use it to learn what happens when you change parameters and input values. It is a great way to learn ,and if you blow something up, your out very little. Not like putting a hole in a piston.

Biggest problem you have with using a near EFI system, is the engines VE is different, it can be worked through but it is not as easy as bolting on an modern EFI. If you want a basic system then K-jet conversion is a great choice as it is a mechanical analog system. Used for several years on VW, Porsches and several others, very simple in nature, and very easy to keep running.

There are several good books out now on EFI.

[edwin]

I used a Haltech sprint 500 when I converted my car a couple of years ago.
It cost me a bit then but I'm pretty sure if I planned really carefully I could do the same setup under $1000.
I used weber 38idf carbs and gutted them, Mitsubishi dissy and LS1 coils.
My dad wants me to do his 2ltr kombi for him and I'll use the oem fi manifold rather than ITB as it didn't gain me anything on what I assume is a stock rebuild.

[type47]

The cleanest setup I've seen was taken off a VW Rrabbit and put in a 914 ...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...onic+conversion



best of all, it's a NO BRAINER (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[914forme]

If your using Carbs, epoxy all the holes except the idle bypasses. Gut them make the bores as clean as you can. Do not forgot that you ned a vacuum tap in each bore, an build a vacuum manifold so your MAP can pickup a more stable signal.

Carbs are a great way to build these, you just don't need all the junk.

Plan and simple its way easier to do a manifold and a single TB.

Key is go out and have fun, and learn something new.

[Mike Bellis]

First of all, I have next to no real knowledge on this modern FI stuff.

Regards to the above suggestion....that's exactly what I'm trying to do now.
I've been talked into trying to adapt a Honda Civic ODB1 ECU to run on my new type 4 engine.
I've search and found out that Mark produces a "trigger " wheel for the fuel injection.
If he reads this posting, I have a question for him.
Can I simply utilize that trigger to communicate / fire off the injectors?
You see...I do mean I have no knowledge.

Thanks for any future input.......sorry as my finger was too fast...thus the double post.

Brad and I talked briefly about a setup like this. Bottom line... You can use the EFI off any engine on a 914 IF you can duplicate all the sensor input/output. This does not mean it will run well. Once you duplicate sensors, you are at the mercy of the ECU fuel map. Most likely it will run but will not be matched to the engine you are putting it on.

Early ODBI systems have almost no fuel correction. A 2005 or later ODBII system with WB O2 would correct better. But is is still not setup for an air cooled engine.

If you want to play with OEM EFI systems, pick one with a big aftermarket support group. Honda, Subaru & Toyota have great support for flashing ECU's. And web sites like this one for technical info. The newer the ECU, the more support there usually is. Early ECU's use a ton of vacuum lines to make everything work and smog correctly. I would stay away from 1990's ECU's except GM.

I could take the Audi/VW ECU (2000 MY) I have and rework it for a T4 but the cam and crank signals would require some creative internal modifications. All the other sensors just bolt on somewhere.

[914werke]

So it seems the general topic: OE FI troubleshooting / FI tweek'ing / FI replacement / Mega - Microsquirt implementation, has reached a point of critical mass ?
Time has taken its toll on 35+ yr old parts, OE supply has dwindled or disappeared.
Aftermarket support & options for "PnP kits" has improved & costs have come down (some).

Admins, is it time we devote a sub-forum to aggregate the collective wisdom, experience and solutions?

[Mike Bellis]

Admins, is it time we devote a sub-forum to aggregate the collective wisdom, experience and solutions?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

This might be a good idea... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)