OT: Big Brother is on his way, Whats next? Options

[Rusty]

I think, unfortunatly, as long as we have a two party system we are going to have trouble. I dont think Kerry's huge budget will help the economy. Honestly, I think the next 4 years are gonig to suck no matter who wins. It would probably be better for Kerry to win, pull our boys out of Iraq, and wait 4 years for a true conservative to run that might make some things right. McClintock on '08!

Not that you can believe anything that ANY of these SOBs say... but Kerry has said that we need to "stay the course" in Iraq. He's already said that we should push a huge military presence to Afganistan.

No matter who wins, it's gonna be a LONG 4 years. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

-Rusty (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[aircooledboy]

Hey y'all,

I have been internet incommunicado for a few days, and just got to read this this morning. I must say, it does my heart good to know that others outside the court house are aware of, and concerned by, the train wreck that civil liberties and our international reputation have be come. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

BTW, after I posted my original message on this thread, I left the office about 45 min.s later. I was followed almost all the way home by a black Malibu with "US Gov" plates on it. Now granted, my office is across the street from the US Atty, FBI and ATF offices, and it could have been a coincidence. On the other hand I live way out in the middle of no where, and this car followed until the very last turn before my farm, and stayed in the exact lane behind me despite lane changes, for the entire 20 minute trip home. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) Given the lengths these clowns will go to lately, I would make it a 60/40 chance the escort was a little shot accross my bow related to my post. If so: Hey boys, it looks like I'm a slow learner, and I will not STFU about what is going on. And, it's cloudy out today, so take those stupid sunglasses off (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Just so you understand my philosophical perspective, I am a registered, card carrying republican. But, I am also a thinking human being, and a father. I am gravely concerned that if we are lucky, MAYBE our children will live to see the damage this administration has done be repaired. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

What ever your ideological stance is, it is imperative that we ALL get out and vote. At the very least, we cannot allow our next president to be selected by a career politician in Florida deciding which votes count and which ones don't.

Before I fall off this soap box, let me leave you with my second favorite quote of all time (for #1, see sig line):

"Those who would sacrifice freedom for safety shall be left with neither" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

We simply cannot sit on our asses while the very freedoms gave rise to the birth of this country are tossed under the bus in the name of "Homeland Security"

[mike_the_man]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I think I'll just lock myself in my garage and work on the teener. It makes my head hurt to think about all of the political crap going on!

[nebreitling]

BTW, after I posted my original message on this thread, I left the office about 45 min.s later. I was followed almost all the way home by a black Malibu with "US Gov" plates on it.

great, now we've got the damn FBI at our BBS.

maybe they can figure out how to stop out cars from rusting, or keep Alfred off the site.

Welcome, FBI! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[RAR]

There is an old sports axiom:
Always change a losing game. If this Bush isn't the biggest loser President in decades, I don't know who is. Vote for Kerry even if you regard him as the lesser of evils (I think he'll do fine). MANY members of Congress loathe the Patriot Act. E-mail your representatives and politely, briefly and constructively tell them you are seriously worried about the course this President has taken. They are loyal Americans like you. Senator Kerry is a decorated former military man who can do the job. Don't buy into the Bush negative hype.
To put this Bush (or is that bush) crowd in perspective, they even dis their own Secretary of State, a former (four or five star) General of the Army, and a graduate of West Point. One doesn't graduate from West Point without considerable intelligence, drive and loyalty. Yet, Dubbya didn't trust him enough to let him in on the Iraq invasion before many others were told.
If you don't like the job Kerry does, then say "next" by your vote. I want a President whose conduct I admire, and the rest of the Free World respects. Bush isn't that person. Change this losing game, and if we get a good one vote him (or her) in again--"Never change a winning game".
Ben of Ben and Jerry's has a political action group that allows you to write your congressmen and representatives with a few simple clicks. If you don't like a particular issue they support you don't have to send on that particular issue.
Democracy REQUIRES participation and constant vigilance, so participate. Your keyboard has made it easier than ever to do so.

"And then they came for me, but by then there was no one left to speak up."

914 content:
Clean air is important, and it is possible. New Porsches put out air almost as clean as goes in. They should give some of old car folks some lattitude though.

[wheelo]

Amen -
Might I add .." If everyone is thinking a like, then someone, isn't really thinking"...
General George Patton (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[MrPitbull]

You guys need to all move to Canada. And bring your teeners! We're all real friendly here! In Saskatchewan, now that my car is 30 years old it doesn't have to pass any type of inspection, we have no smog tests here. Lots of space, free health care. Cheap housing. It's pretty good! The only bad things are -40C winters, and it's damn near impossible to own a gun. Ah, and our beer is better!!!

From the sounds of it, things are getting a little screwy in the U.S. I wouldn't even consider moving there till Bush is out.

Canada rocks, mostly!

So you say that Canada is friendly....Im not even wellcome to your country since im in to the bike scene over here.....Canada sucks big time and its the same with Australia.

[Mark Henry]

I was followed almost all the way home by a black Malibu with "US Gov" plates on it.

If you really want to piss them off answer your phone with "Good morning, fuck Bush!". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

So you say that Canada is friendly....Im not even wellcome to your country since im in to the bike scene over here.....Canada sucks big time and its the same with Australia.

Our last remaining major crime (Mob) families are the 3 biker club's, Satan's Choice, Hell's Angles and Rock Machine. Sad fact, but just looking like a biker, or being in a biker club, could/will get you denied access to Canada and this has only gotten worse because of 9/11.

[dmenche914]

Maybe if the Patriot Act was in place prior to 9-11 we wouldn't have 3000 dead New Yorkers.

Bush is not perfect, he hasn't ordered whole sale carpet bombing of the pig muslim nations that support terror, if and hopefully when he does this, it will be ok by me.

So 70% some odd percent of Europe doesn't approve of our actions, so what? Is this the Europe that gave the world Hitler, and Mussolinni? The same Europe that has been overrun by muslims settling there? The same europe, that contains France, the yellow backed pussies that can't defend there own land unless we defend it for them?

Lets see, the UN, thats right, the same UN that allowed half to one million killings in Rawanda? The same UN that voted for force (ie WAR) against Iraq, then later when it became needed, some members (but not all) backed away. the same UN that allows nations like Syria be on human rights commissions?

As far as Clinton, he was too busy sticking his cigar (maybe for lack of dick) in some interns cunt to take any action to stop bin laden while he was in office. Clinton was too worried about world opinion to drop a big bomb on bin ladins camp, and risk collateral damage (Hence 3000 New Yorkers dead)

I like my Bush tax refund, the money I earned, that kerry saws he wants to take away.

Go ahead, and monitor all the web sites as far as i am concerned, becuase the terrorists are using the internet to plan attacks. I have nothing to hide, and if i did, i wouldn't post it on the web anyway.

Bush seems to be the best cannidate to take on the muslim nutcases (no offense to nuts) that want to kill us all, He freed Afganistan, where murder, lack of rights, and all kinds of horror took place daily until we got in a kicked the talibans ass.

We now are in Iraq, and got the terrorists all going after us there, This is good, because while they are there, they are not free to attack us at home.

Our government, with help from the Patriot Act has stopped many terror attacks aginst us. They got the dirty bomb guy before he carried out his plot. Numerous other attacks have been stopped. Keep filling up camp X-Ray with prisoners, and use what ever method works to get info, then torture the hell out of these pigs, just becuase they are terrorists, they deserve every bit of it (if you think not, go watch the nick berg or dan pearle video and see what these animals are like)

Oh yes, kerry, who just missed a vote in the senate to extend unemployment benifits, yes, that's a good guy. (He admitted to unlawfully killings while in Vietnam, and now want's Bushes head on a platter for some nudy prison photos of terrorists in Iraq, what a fake!)

Bush is not perfect, but by golly, he is a hell of alot better than that frenchy looking kerry (whom Kim fuck bad hair doo of North Korea supports).

And by the way, we are finally getting out of Clintons depression, the economy is doing much better now, than at the end of clintons reign (the depression started before Bush took office) The stock market fraud, and Enron were all going on during Clinton years. Bush has finally gotten much of that mess cleaned up.

[fiid]

IMHO - the patriot act is unnecessary. If the US had even BASIC flight security for internal flights (i.e. were treated like international flights) there is a good chance that 911 wouldn't have happened. Before 9-11 I actually felt nervous flying internally since it was treated with no more respect or security concious than getting in a Taxi or a muni bus. Now of course it's ridiculous - they keep finding the underwires in bras. Very helpful.

You need to access what the actual risk of these things is. Dirty bombs are really hard to execute. So is anthrax. Think about the cost of life. I would bet that the most effective way you could save American life today would be something like passing a law to ban cow bars on trucks. (They raise the chance of death or paralysis in a low speed run-over accident to near certainty). It costs nothing, it doesn't impact anybody's day (maybe a couple of ranchers in texas - you could probably exempt farmers anyway). Traffic accidents take WAY more life than terrorists. They just don't look as devastating on CNN.

The Tax cut is nice, but we can't afford it, especially since we have engaged in this long-ass war and support effort in Iraq AND Afganistan.

IMHO the problem is that Bush/Republican camp (and even public companies) think that organisations can be shrunk by cutting off the money. It does work, but what you end up with is probably not what you wanted going in. This approach is what causes schools and education to get shafted where the military continues to enjoy loads of cash. Why? The military is better at fighting for cash than teachers are. We also short change our police force, and other public services, and we continue to pay for beurocrats to sit in offices maintaining hideously complex tax codes and the like. Beurocrats are good at the beurocracy necessary to keep beurocrats in business. So who loses? Your kids will get a sucky education, but they'll be safe in case Equador decides to build a huge military machine and launch a military conquest to take over the US. Let's just try and ignore North Korea for now.

IMHO - a smarter workforce is a good way to combat outsourcing.

IMHO - Kerry ain't exactly the pick either, but it's the lesser of two evils at this point, and while we continue to have a two party system, that's all you get to think about!

Whatever you do - make sure you have a say in it. Get out and vote. I'll take the dumb guy if that's what everybody wants, but not because he's got better lawyers and a brother in the right place.

OKAY - can't think of anything else to write about.

[fiid]

Oh, Please don't think that corporate governence is cleaned up. It ain't. Theres a long way to go yet.

[aircooledboy]

Man, I SWORE I wasn't gonna post on this topic again. Note to self: Starting tomorrow, listen to inner voice of reason.

"The same europe, that contains France, the yellow backed pussies that can't defend there own land unless we defend it for them?"


If it were not for France, there is no dispute we would never have won the revolutionary war. But the French did not stick around after the war to make sure we installed a government to their liking, and that is where we are fucking up in Iraq.


"Bush has finally gotten much of that mess cleaned up."


Like I said earlier, life long republican here. But dood, that is a stretch. Bush policies have resulted in huge incentives for american companies to send jobs overseas. My metropolitan area here of just under 200,000 people has lost 27,000 manufacturing jobs in the last 24 months due to tax incentives created by the Bush administration. You have to have a decent resume to get a job at Mickey D's around here right now. And in case you think that was unexpected, remember a few weeks ago when the labor secretary referred to the problem of american companies moving jobs overseas as "merely a new form of export" or some such bullshit.

You have no problem with the Patriot Act because you believe it makes this country safer, and who wouldn't be in favor of that? The problem is that it gives the feds the authority to grab you up because they wanna, and they won't have to tell your family or your lawyer a damn thing about it. If you think that is a far fetched scenario, I will introduce you (someday if the feds ever let him out of detention) to a young man who was taken into custody for what the government has essentially conceeded was otherwise legal possession of legal weapons, because some 27 year old piss-ant Assistant United State's Attorney decided he was "potentially one triggering event away" from actually comiting a crime. Thats right, he hasn't yet, but the feds thought he might someday, and he's in custody for some 45+ days and counting courtesy of the Patriot act. This kid is no more a terorist than you or I.

If that was you brother or son, I think you might feel differently about the "Patriot Act". Maybe it would have prevented 9-11, maybe not. Personally, I doubt it. The cost of the government "protecting me" with that kind of power is just too high.

"Keep filling up camp X-Ray with prisoners, and use what ever method works to get info, then torture the hell out of these pigs, just becuase they are terrorists, they deserve every bit of it "

The problem is, that just ain't the way the country I grew up loving does things. Being able to say we take action because it is the right thing to do, and not because it is what we want to do or is the easiest, is what gives this country the moral authority to act in the international realm. This administration hasn't just damaged that moral authority, it has wiped its ass with it, and flushed it.

"if you think not, go watch the nick berg or dan pearle video"

If you don't see the relationship between the ass wiping mentioned above and what happened to Berg, you are not paying attention.

[dmenche914]

Well I guess the 3000 dead feel better that the Patriot act might have saved them if it was inacted then.

As far as airline security, yes if we had armed pilots, locked doors etc it might have prevented that attack. however we have a muslim enemy that is bent on killing civilians, even if it means suicide. So if they can't use our passenger jets, maybe they will go to cargo jets, or private jets as missles. Just wait for bus bombs, like in isreal, then what, metal detectors for busses. How about that and it is very easy to do compared to anthrax and such, maybe a moscow stlye theater take over? There will hit us again, maybe not with planes, but they will find a way unless we crush them dirty pigs to a pulp. Bush is doing this, (but not fast enough for me)

Of we have to inact security for suicide bombers, truck bombs, even hoaxes of anthrax, the percieved loss of freedom by the patriot act will appear as nothing compared to what we americans will have to endure for security, you hate it, but it might become needed to perserve lives, thus I say kill them muslims terrorists now, where they live.

True france helped us out, and yes they did not help set up our government, but then again we (in america) where not millions of raging muslim loonies trying to set up some taliban utopia either. Since then, france has proven to be pretty much worthless. It was france amoung others that had sweet oil deals with saddam, that is one reason the opposed the war, they also has a very large radical muslim population now to contend with. france is basically worthless. it took about a decade to get a running good democracy with civil rights and rule of law in japan and germany after WWII, it is a bit of a strech to think we can just get saddam, and leave, thinking iraq can set up a just government just like that, we haven't killed off enough of there bad guys yet. we have so far done a pretty damn good job in Afganistain so far, at least the women are not beaten with iron pipe anymore for showing an ankle in public!

Jobs are coming back, believe it or not they are. We took a big hit with the"dot com" bust, be we also know that it was mainly driven by hype, unrealistic stock purchases, and crooked companies. This did not start under Bush, but did end under him. We are now in recovery, and will be back on track soon. the fake ecomony of clinton just could not last on the lies and greed that drove the market artificailly high.

As far as this nation always being all lovey lovey with tyrants in the past (your "america") keep in mind the only way we stopped hitler and tojo was bombing the hell out of them bastards, men women and children. We killed them in order to preserve peace and civility. I know this may sound strange to fight a war to keep the peace, but thats the way it is, and always has been, you have to kill the bad guys before they get you.

If we do not kill them where they are, they will come here again. Our planes may be safer, but they will try anything, even low tech has worked for them (Bali night club bombing).

I support Bush becuase he is taking the fight to the enemy. If kerry thinks we should get UN approval, well maybe he just doen't understand who are freinds are, and who has common interests with us, it aint the UN thats for sure. kerry "voted for the $87 mil for our troops before he voted against it" great double speak here.

you can have the best schools in the world, but that does not stop terrorists. In california we spend a ton on education, much of it pissed away on schools that are administered poorly. More money aint the issue, it's the administration, and teachers unions that have hurt the kids the most. Big administrative staffs, bilingual education, stupid manadates for education from politicians, lavish new offices for school administrators (Oakland calif.) while school room crumble. In my town all the scools just got new play fields, a stadium, and several new auditoriums, millions spent, but none on books or classrooms, yes they are using trailers for classrooms at the middle scool that just got a new auditorium, track, filed, and baseball diamond (and the old ones were just fine). You can bet your ass the teachers union will suport some new tax on me for the sad shape of the trailer, or the ragged book the poor kids must use, they never asked me to give my money for new fileds, or stadiums, parents that do not serve as a good example to their kids is also a problem, money will not fix that.

With a reduced military, what do you think we will do? Guess we would have had to leave the taliban in power.

[SirAndy]

So 70% some odd percent of Europe doesn't approve of our actions, so what?  Is this the Europe that gave the world Hitler, and Mussolinni?  The same Europe that has been overrun by muslims settling there? The same europe, that contains France, the yellow backed pussies that can't defend there own land unless we defend it for them?

too many things in your post that need correction, so i'm just going to pick one (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

you are the perfect example of the uninformed average american ...

The same Europe that has been overrun by muslims settling there.

this is, of course, absolute non-sense!
you obviously haven't spent ANY time in europe or you would know otherwise ...
i grew up in germany. the first time i meet a muslim, i was in my early 20s.
there aren't any more muslims in germany than in the US, if even.

So 70% some odd percent of Europe doesn't approve of our actions, so what?  Is this the Europe that gave the world Hitler, and Mussolinni?

yes. that europe. it's also the europe that gave birth to the first settelers that came to america. it's also the europe that gave us people like mozart, keppler, aristoteles and einstein just to name a few. what's your point?

pointing to someone elses failures to justify your own isn't very effective.
yes, europe produced people like Hitler and Mussolinni.
but how does that justify ANYTHING that is going on in the world right now?

The same europe, that contains France, the yellow backed pussies that can't defend there own land unless we defend it for them?

again, you should educate yourself better before you post opinions like that in public. the french resistance was actually quite effective, and without it, your "glorious" D-Day would have been a complete disaster and a lot more american lifes would have been lost that day ...



i highly recommend you start educating yourself!
get those old history books out of the closet and read them. again.

spend some time in europe, travel around and talk to locals (and while you're at it, try to speak THEIR language, it will be apprechiated)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif) Andy

[SirAndy]

Sad fact, but just looking like a biker, or being in a biker club, could/will get you denied access to Canada and this has only gotten worse because of 9/11.

i used to hang out with the hells angles in roskilde (denmark).
man, those guys KNOW how to throw a party, i tell you!

never got involved in any of the mobster stuff (drugs, weapons & prostitution).

they were nice guys, actually ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif) Andy

[MrPitbull]

There is an old sports axiom:
Always change a losing game. If this Bush isn't the biggest loser President in decades, I don't know who is. Vote for Kerry even if you regard him as the lesser of evils (I think he'll do fine). MANY members of Congress loathe the Patriot Act. E-mail your representatives and politely, briefly and constructively tell them you are seriously worried about the course this President has taken. They are loyal Americans like you. Senator Kerry is a decorated former military man who can do the job. Don't buy into the Bush negative hype.
To put this Bush (or is that bush) crowd in perspective, they even dis their own Secretary of State, a former (four or five star) General of the Army, and a graduate of West Point. One doesn't graduate from West Point without considerable intelligence, drive and loyalty. Yet, Dubbya didn't trust him enough to let him in on the Iraq invasion before many others were told.
If you don't like the job Kerry does, then say "next" by your vote. I want a President whose conduct I admire, and the rest of the Free World respects. Bush isn't that person. Change this losing game, and if we get a good one vote him (or her) in again--"Never change a winning game".
Ben of Ben and Jerry's has a political action group that allows you to write your congressmen and representatives with a few simple clicks. If you don't like a particular issue they support you don't have to send on that particular issue.
Democracy REQUIRES participation and constant vigilance, so participate. Your keyboard has made it easier than ever to do so.

"And then they came for me, but by then there was no one left to speak up."

914 content:
Clean air is important, and it is possible. New Porsches put out air almost as clean as goes in. They should give some of old car folks some lattitude though.

That is exactly what the rest of the world also think....

[MrPitbull]

I was followed almost all the way home by a black Malibu with "US Gov" plates on it.

If you really want to piss them off answer your phone with "Good morning, fuck Bush!". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

So you say that Canada is friendly....Im not even wellcome to your country since im in to the bike scene over here.....Canada sucks big time and its the same with Australia.

Our last remaining major crime (Mob) families are the 3 biker club's, Satan's Choice, Hell's Angles and Rock Machine. Sad fact, but just looking like a biker, or being in a biker club, could/will get you denied access to Canada and this has only gotten worse because of 9/11.

I have been involved in the bike scene since i was 4 years old that is 26 years ago....my father drives Harley and has always been and I have been in one of the club that you mentioned since 1999....
And Im still no criminal...working hard have two companys, love my family and my life and of course all my Porsches espacilly the little crazy 914-8....

[Mark Henry]

I have been involved in the bike scene since i was 4 years old that is 26 years ago....my father drives Harley and has always been and I have been in one of the club that you mentioned since 1999....
And Im still no criminal...working hard have two companys, love my family and my life and of course all my Porsches espacilly the little crazy 914-8....

I know that just because you're in one of these clubs that doesn't make you a criminal. It's the police, media and public perception of what they "think" is going on in these clubs.
Ever since a little boy was killed, in Quebec by a car bomb linked to a club turf war, the authorities have clamped down hard on any/all biker activities.

I know it might not be fair but it is reality, if you belong to one of these biker clubs you will not get into Canada.

[Toast]

Just wanted to throw this in for those of you interested in Voting for Kerry. Not that all politicians arent liars in some way, but it is nice to have a picture to prove it.


This is a man that denounced his military service.

This was a man who had an alliance with the treason queen herself who was famous for befriending the enemy.

This is a man who was the head of the antiwar movement.

This is a man who not only called for, but embraced the idea of men to dodge the draft and move to Canada.

This is a man who called for men to turn their back on their country.

This is a man that called combat murder.

This is a man that now embraces what he once denounced and is now considered a war hero.

This is a man who once called his fellow war veterans baby killers, but is now proud that he himself killed while in combat.

This is a man that is despised by the veterans of foreign wars organization.

This as a man that according to the national democratic committee, if he really wants to win, will name Hillary as his running mate.

[TheCabinetmaker]

Never liked Jane Fonda anyway.