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> strut inserts, oil?
rhodyguy
post Apr 16 2003, 06:24 AM
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when i pulled the inserts out of the wreck (one red, one black boge, go figure) there was what appeared to be clean motor oil in the housing. is this common practice? if so how much is poured in prior to reinstall?

kevin
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URY914
post Apr 16 2003, 06:33 AM
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I've heard of this being done. It is to help "cool" the shocks I believe. I would say the weight, out weight (ha) the cooling effect.

Paul
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joea9146
post Apr 16 2003, 07:00 AM
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yes it is put in for cooling.... I would think about 3-4 oz should be ok
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tod914
post Apr 16 2003, 07:43 AM
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Bilsteins go in dry - should be ok with the others
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Lawrence
post Apr 16 2003, 10:12 AM
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When I got the front Koni inserts for the 911 from Jason at Paragon, he recommended no oil.

-Rusty
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Brad Roberts
post Apr 16 2003, 11:51 AM
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Dont be confused here folks. Some of the original inserts used OIL in the shock tube.

The racers use ANTI FREEZE to keep things cool.

ALL 911 Carrera's that came with Boge struts had oil in the strut tube.

Rare that you run across cars that still have the OE shocks in them.

B
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rhodyguy
post Apr 16 2003, 08:34 PM
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the car had 3 koni reds, the boge was an odity. then i remembered today the kid i bought the wreck from hard curbed 2 pass side front fuchs. bet he ruined the strut unit on the first go round.

kevin
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rhodyguy
post Apr 17 2003, 07:12 AM
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i have another koni so i have set of fronts. whats the general consensus? to oil or not to oil?

kevin
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Bleyseng
post Apr 17 2003, 08:35 AM
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Well Brad, that finally explains why when I took the front shocks off the 70 1.7 it had anti-freeze in the struts w/the Koni's. I was like WTF! when I disassembled the struts cuz it made a mess on the garage floor. Blair was laughing pretty hard too! Those Koni's are in my car now...still waiting for some koni's....Did you ever get a price?

Geoff
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tryan
post Apr 17 2003, 08:52 AM
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i wonder why racers would use antifreeze? antifreeze does not transfer heat that well. ( if you put over 67+% in a wasser motor it will run hot ). i guess it would keep the parts from rusting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
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Zeke
post Apr 17 2003, 09:13 AM
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QUOTE(tryan @ Apr 17 2003, 06:52 AM)
i wonder why racers would use antifreeze? antifreeze does not transfer heat that well. ( if you put over 67+% in a wasser motor it will run hot ). i guess it would keep the parts from rusting. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Rusting? Wouldn't oil also retard rust? Anyway, I read some time ago on PP911BBS that only the Boge inserts had the oil to transfer the heat to the outside of the strut housing. All others went in dry. I suppose if you knew what you were doing, you could drill holes in the strut for cooling.
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Brad Roberts
post Apr 17 2003, 09:38 AM
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Tryan,

I have no idea why racers used anti freeze. I dont do it.. but I have seen other racers pulling their hair out trying to keep the antiF in the struts and not on the ground.

Heat within our strut tubes is a big deal. Your sticking a tube inside of a tube. The heat has nowhere to go. That is why you see so many external resovoir shocks these days.

B
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Tony C
post Apr 17 2003, 09:55 AM
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QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Apr 17 2003, 07:38 AM)
That is why you see so many external resovoir shocks these days.

B

Uhmmmmm, NO!

Heat is maybe .01% of an advantage of using an external resovoir shock and only because of the extra fluid. The rest of the 99.99% is that is allows you another way to meter(control) the fluid in compression forces. All external resoviors have at the very least a floating piston with air on one side and fluid on the other. Most that offer bump adjustment on the resovior itself have another piston and/or metering valve with different size passages.


-Tony C
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Brad Roberts
post Apr 17 2003, 09:59 AM
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Sure.. come on. Its sales point right on the sticker on the box. "better cooling" LOL

I read it on the sticker and on the website !!

B
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Tony C
post Apr 17 2003, 10:17 AM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bs.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bs.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bs.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

At least we will have something to discuse over lunch rather than our normal bs about buying businesses and trivial things like that.

-Tony
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airsix
post Apr 17 2003, 11:01 AM
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This isn't that complicated. Lets look at a few things:

1) the strut insert (shock) absorbs a huge amount of energy.
2) the engergy absorbed is converted to....(drum roll)... HEAT.
3) the strut insert is isolated inside the strut tube surrounded by a jacket of stagnant air.
4) air is a poor conductor of heat, so heat transfer to the strut tube is slow.
5) heat buildup will degrade the effectiveness of the shock. (shock fade)
6) oil is a much better heat conductor than air.
7) replacing the narrow air jacket surrounding the strut insert with oil should greatly increase the heat transfer from the strut insert to the strut tube.
8) the strut tube is much more effective at shedding heat because it is in the path of outside airflow.
9)The volume of air between the shock insert and the strut is very small, so it doesn't take much oil to fill the void. Weight is a non-issue.

I'm really currious to hear a counter argument to this. It seems pretty straight forward.

-Ben M.
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SirAndy
post Apr 17 2003, 11:16 AM
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QUOTE(airsix @ Apr 17 2003, 09:01 AM)
3) the strut insert is isolated inside the strut tube surrounded by a jacket of stagnant air.
4) air is a poor conductor of heat, so heat transfer to the strut tube is slow.
5) heat buildup will degrade the effectiveness of the shock. (shock fade)
6) oil is a much better heat conductor than air.

the most important bit here is "stagnant air".
stagnant air is a very good insulator.
moving air is a very bad one. thus moving air is very good to cool things.

now, has anyone ever thought about a design that would move air through the strut tube/housing?
that should work just fine and eliminate the oil mess ...

just my 17 cents ...
Andy
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rhodyguy
post Apr 17 2003, 07:14 PM
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well, that was one big circle. i'll just put a 1/2 cup of oil in upon reinstall. now 30wt, 10-40. detergent or non? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

kevin
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Bleyseng
post Apr 17 2003, 09:12 PM
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Castor oil Kevin, helps with the bumps too.
Geoff
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rhodyguy
post Apr 18 2003, 06:50 AM
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the ones on my rectum? " rectum? hell it damn near killed him".

kevin
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