2011 SCCA National Thread Options

[PeeGreen 914]

Word is he is okay. The 914 looks a little beat up but not too bad. His Suburban and tailor don't look good.

[PeeGreen 914]

So turns out Leeds didn't get a scratch on him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . Looks like the trailer lost a wheel and with the wind it made the trailer fish tail all over and took him for a ride (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) .

[grantsfo]

Wow! scary. Glad he is ok and from picture in good spirits.

[grantsfo]

Tons o picks! Including one damn sexy Boxster

http://www.gotcone.com/pgallery/2011_scca_...solo_nationals/

[jhadler]

For 914's I'd say focus everything on suspension. Suspension dynamics of the stockish rear arms just dont hold tires to pavement like more modern suspensions. I was talking with J and said that ideal would be a narrow 914 with Boxster suspension! But you cant practically do that in FP.

I agree that suspension is the key, but unless I haven't been keeping up on my Solo rules, there's really nothing that can't be done in FP to the suspension of the 914. My understanding is that the car has to retain independent suspension, but that's it. So why not build an SLA front and rear suspension for the car? Wenzel's champion EP rabbit had SLA suspension, and it sure didn't come from the factory that way.

-Josh

[jhadler]

Wow! Glad Leeds is okay. That had to be a "Depends" moment for sure.

-Josh2

[grantsfo]

I just dont know how you get a FP 914 to compete with this?
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.gotcone.com-433-1315335268.1.jpg)

Boxster just holds tires down very well compared to 914's and in FP where Boxster runs at the same weight there isnt much a 914 has in the way of an advantage other than being a little more narrow.

I was looking at results and the Boxster was the fastest Porsche at Nationals both PAX and raw time. Scary thing is the suspension on my car isnt all that great. It still has stock shock top with rubber bushings with cheap $1700 KW Variant 2 shocks. Nothing nice like a JRZ or Moton that top cars use. With monoball on top with a good shock the car would handle even better.

Somone needs to be thinking about what can be done to improve 914 suspension so they can compete in these Prepared classes again.

I think my next car build will be XP Boxster to go after the Zust car. The 175 WHP FP boxster wasnt too far off his times. With a 450 HP 2.5 liter subi motor in a Boxster he might be in for some trouble with the right driver at the wheel. Actually 3rd place FP Boxster times would have have been 5th in XP! How about shattering myth that you need expensive HP win trophy in XP? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Sep 6 2011, 12:55 PM

[Joe Ricard]

There is a huge difference in times. what might not be obvious to some is Jason Collett had a faster scratch time than Zust.

[grantsfo]

There is a huge difference in times. what might not be obvious to some is Jason Collett had a faster scratch time than Zust.

Not given the huge power and weight differntial between the FP Boxster and the Zust car. Drop a few more pounds out of the boxster with Subi motor and add 250 HP and that gap would close up real quick. Trust me.

I have been watching the Zust car for a while and I see its vunrabilities and the S200o isnt anything special just has a better driver.

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Sep 6 2011, 01:08 PM

[Randal]

So turns out Leeds didn't get a scratch on him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . Looks like the trailer lost a wheel and with the wind it made the trailer fish tail all over and took him for a ride (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) .

Glad Leeds came out of that one OK.

Wonder how fast he was going when that fishtailing started?

Seeing that carnage I think I'm going to be checking my trailer and trailer brakes before the trip up to Medford.

We are always working on our cars, but it seems the trailers take a back seat.

[jhadler]

Boxster just holds tires down very well compared to 914's and in FP where Boxster runs at the same weight there isnt much a 914 has in the way of an advantage other than being a little more narrow.

Out of the box, without heroic engineering and investment, the Boxter has a better suspension design. But there's nothing time, effort and a cr*p load of money can't resolve if someone really wanted to make a killer 914 for the prepared classes.

Even still, it's not like the Boxter has a formula car suspension under it. It's still struts, replete with all the short-comings that a strut suspension brings with it.

-Josh

[J P Stein]

Boxster just holds tires down very well compared to 914's and in FP where Boxster runs at the same weight there isnt much a 914 has in the way of an advantage other than being a little more narrow.

Out of the box, without heroic engineering and investment, the Boxter has a better suspension design. But there's nothing time, effort and a cr*p load of money can't resolve if someone really wanted to make a killer 914 for the prepared classes.

Even still, it's not like the Boxter has a formula car suspension under it. It's still struts, replete with all the short-comings that a strut suspension brings with it.

-Josh

Brit just got a complete F&R (minus a few bent bits) Lotus Elise suspension. A good winter project. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[jhadler]

Brit just got a complete F&R (minus a few bent bits) Lotus Elise suspension. A good winter project. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Now we're talkin!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

-Josh2

[Andyrew]

/\ Very much going to be watching the progress on Britts suspension. I know BrettW has custom front and rear suspension and he likes it, and there is one other that that posted a long time ago about his custom suspension setup..

Personally, coming from autox'ing my Audi which pretty much has 4 links f/r, the way it grips the road is MUCH MUCH better than the 914 or even the 944. On WAY less tire.

[grantsfo]

Boxster just holds tires down very well compared to 914's and in FP where Boxster runs at the same weight there isnt much a 914 has in the way of an advantage other than being a little more narrow.

Out of the box, without heroic engineering and investment, the Boxter has a better suspension design. But there's nothing time, effort and a cr*p load of money can't resolve if someone really wanted to make a killer 914 for the prepared classes.

Even still, it's not like the Boxter has a formula car suspension under it. It's still struts, replete with all the short-comings that a strut suspension brings with it.

-Josh

Agreed however its one of the best strut based suspension designs out there and way ahead of 914 design. While not an F! suspension GT3 race cars seem to do OK with strut based suspenions (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Having lots of seat time in both stock and race versions of the cars the Boxster when built as a lightweight race car feels invincible when you go into turns. I can just drive into turns and do crazy stuff and get away with it. 914 suspension is not as forgiving.

Hey JP,

How can he use Lotus suspension in XP legally? I guess I have to read rules closer? He'd have to add differnt pickup points for that suspension or has Brit given up on XP and just going for unlimited build now that he see's what it takes to be competitive in XP?

Hey at least with E Mod fast cars at Nationals are almost non existent after about first 3 or 4 cars. Heck podium level FP cars would have trophied in E Mod this year! Then you have a car that cant be beat easily in local events. He should at least be able to hold off the ES miatas with Lotus suspension under the car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

Let me see ....so he has got rid of the Porsche motor, replacing porsche suspension ....Now he just needs to get rid of that flexi flyer vintage Porsche chassis and he will be set! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

After all that Brit just might beat a fast driver in the stock chassis, motor and Porsche suspension of the FP Boxster if he has a good day. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Sep 12 2011, 11:16 AM

[grantsfo]

/\ Very much going to be watching the progress on Britts suspension. I know BrettW has custom front and rear suspension and he likes it, and there is one other that that posted a long time ago about his custom suspension setup..

Personally, coming from autox'ing my Audi which pretty much has 4 links f/r, the way it grips the road is MUCH MUCH better than the 914 or even the 944. On WAY less tire.

A4 suspension used to amaze me! Its better than Boxster suspension just connected to a pig of a car!

[jhadler]

How can he use Lotus suspension in XP legally? I guess I have to read rules closer? He'd have to add differnt pickup points for that suspension or has Brit given up on XP and just going for unlimited build now that he see's what it takes to be competitive in XP?

I think it's still the same basic rules structure which requires independent suspension to remain independent and live axle to remain live axle. But there's where it ends. Doesn't matter if it's mac struts or SLA, it's still independent.

(not touching the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) commentary though...)

-Josh2

[grantsfo]

How can he use Lotus suspension in XP legally? I guess I have to read rules closer? He'd have to add differnt pickup points for that suspension or has Brit given up on XP and just going for unlimited build now that he see's what it takes to be competitive in XP?

I think it's still the same basic rules structure which requires independent suspension to remain independent and live axle to remain live axle. But there's where it ends. Doesn't matter if it's mac struts or SLA, it's still independent.

(not touching the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif) commentary though...)

-Josh2

Looks like front can be converted and I was mistaken you can change pickup points so thats a cool mod for the front. Cant wait to see how Brit does this mod. SOunds like great project!

However looks like rear has to retain original design? or maybe I'm not understanding intent of this rule which is often the case with SCCA.

4. The manufacturer’s original basic type of rear suspension (e.g.
independent, live axle, swing axle, MacPherson strut, A-arm, etc.)
shall be retained, unless otherwise stated in Appendix A. Rocker
arms and push-pull rods may be used to augment the rear suspension
members.

This post has been edited by grantsfo: Sep 12 2011, 11:32 AM

[jhadler]

However looks like rear has to retain original design? or maybe I'm not understanding intent of this rule which is often the case with SCCA.

4. The manufacturer’s original basic type of rear suspension (e.g.
independent, live axle, swing axle, MacPherson strut, A-arm, etc.)
shall be retained, unless otherwise stated in Appendix A. Rocker
arms and push-pull rods may be used to augment the rear suspension
members.

Hmm, that seems to limit what one can do the rear. Still, there's a lot that can be done to improve the camber and toe curves and still retain a semi-trailing arm rear suspension.

-Josh2

[J P Stein]

5. SUSPENSION CONTROL
Any front and rear suspension system type (MacPherson/Chapman
strut, double A-arm, live axle, etc.) may be used.

RTFB. Hint: XP section. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)