Suspension Setup and Cages?????, at what point do you NEED a cage, or not Options

[RocknRollFrenzy]

Yeah.....kinda......basically the IT rules restirct where and how many places the cage can attach to the chasis, which limits how much your cage can stiffen it. hence the big advantage of being able to use the seatbelt mounting points. didn't quite manage to explain what i meant as well as i would have liked earlier.......its easy to know exactly what i'm talking about when i'm the one talking.....not so easy for other people to read my mind, it think. oh well...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[groot]

Cool. I understand what you're saying.

My point is those 8 points can be located to stiffen the crap out of the body.... with the exception of the front strut towers.

The previous cage we installed in our ITB VW GTi was prepared within the rules. The cage really stiffened that body up, no question. But, since it was IT, I couldn't tie in the front strut towers (couldn't penetrate the forward firewall). With my previous ITC Scirocco, the strut towers started to pull away from in the front inner fenders after many very rough years of faithful service. So, eventually this could develop into a problem on that vehicle. More weight on the front wheels, and high spring rates, and little travel.... now I'm running P-car.

My current cage (production car in process) has many attachments to the body. The main hoop is welded to the targa bar in many places, even the harness bar is welded to the rear firewall. This freedom in production vs. IT is nice, but you can make an IT car very stiff, too.

[groot]

Another interesting thing in IT is that you can use 100 square inches of plate on each mounting point. Used intelligently, that alone can stiffen up a body.

That's one thing that really upsets me about the bolt in cages. The plates they use are usually only single plane and painfully small.

[grantsfo]

Yeah.....kinda......basically the IT rules restirct where and how many places the cage can attach to the chasis, which limits how much your cage can stiffen it. hence the big advantage of being able to use the seatbelt mounting points. didn't quite manage to explain what i meant as well as i would have liked earlier.......its easy to know exactly what i'm talking about when i'm the one talking.....not so easy for other people to read my mind, it think. oh well...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

There's a shop in Scotts Valley that can do 914 rollbar for PCA and POC TT's? Where is it located? I would much rather keep my car local as my wife has an office on Scotts Valley drive.

[RocknRollFrenzy]

on south navarra dr. we're working out of our garage for the time being.

[campbellcj]

Damn...100sq.in. for each mounting plate?

[Mueller]

I would much rather keep my car local as my wife has an office on Scotts Valley drive.

Milpitas isn't too far away (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

TC Design

Tony did my cage as well as quite a few others here .....he's good, otherwise I don't think he'd be working on as many GT2's and GT3's as he does. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[RocknRollFrenzy]

yep. tony's good. he also charges about 3 times what we do, sometimes more. we can also get your car on a saturday morning and have a full cage in it by sunday evening (assuming the interior is already out), since we don't have cars lined up around the block yet. hopefully one day, we'll have as a good a rep as that. we do good work, and it keeps getting better.

[grantsfo]

I would much rather keep my car local as my wife has an office on Scotts Valley drive.

Milpitas isn't too far away (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

TC Design

Tony did my cage as well as quite a few others here .....he's good, otherwise I don't think he'd be working on as many GT2's and GT3's as he does. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

I know Tony at TC Design does great work he did all my suspension work. He does an excellent job. He is looking into a potential roll cage with bolt on extension that will qualify for PCA and POC events. I need a couple more inches to clear my helmet. I still like the idea of somone who can work on the car close to where my wife works. Makes it a lot easier for me to drop the car etc.

[Tony C]

yep.  tony's good.  he also charges about 3 times what we do, sometimes more.  we can also get your car on a saturday morning and have a full cage in it by sunday evening (assuming the interior is already out), since we don't have cars lined up around the block yet.  hopefully one day, we'll have as a good a rep as that.  we do good work, and it keeps getting better.

There are several reasons why I charge more than you, I highly doubt three times though.

1) I have a real overhead, I don't work out of a garage.
2)Look at the quality of the fit, welding, and real engineering behind my cage designs.
3) I have an extremely large insurance policy, look at some of the cars that come into the shop, GT2's and Ruf r-turbos.
4) I am still cheeper than other shops doing the same quality of work I do, McGee, Racer's Group, Rolf, ect.

I don't mean to disrespect you, but you get what you pay for. And in this case we are talking about cages that could potentially save your life. I have built 57 cages THIS YEAR and have three cars in the shop currenty getting cages.

btw: your hourly rate is the same as mine according to your website.
-tony (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[grantsfo]

yep.  tony's good.  he also charges about 3 times what we do, sometimes more.  we can also get your car on a saturday morning and have a full cage in it by sunday evening (assuming the interior is already out), since we don't have cars lined up around the block yet.  hopefully one day, we'll have as a good a rep as that.  we do good work, and it keeps getting better.

There are several reasons why I charge more than you, I highly doubt three times though.

1) I have a real overhead, I don't work out of a garage.
2)Look at the quality of the fit, welding, and real engineering behind my cage designs.
3) I have an extremely large insurance policy, look at some of the cars that come into the shop, GT2's and Ruf r-turbos.
4) I am still cheeper than other shops doing the same quality of work I do, McGee, Racer's Group, Rolf, ect.

I don't mean to disrespect you, but you get what you pay for. And in this case we are talking about cages that could potentially save your life. I have built 57 cages THIS YEAR and have three cars in the shop currenty getting cages.

btw: your hourly rate is the same as mine according to your website.
-tony (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Tony's prices are more than fair for the quality of work he does. Based on rough quotes to me his fabrication prices are very competitive.

...And there is a good chance I will likely haul my car over the hill for him to do my work in the future.

[machina]

I don't mean to disrespect you, but you get what you pay for. And in this case we are talking about cages that could potentially save your life. I have built 57 cages THIS YEAR and have three cars in the shop currenty getting cages.

tony,

just saw your site for the first time. Awsome display of 914 fabrication. I'll have to study some of the cages later when I have more time. Saw a few things I would have liked to do on my cage. (not sure if it is legal for our class though)

nice work,
dr

[RocknRollFrenzy]

yep.  tony's good.  he also charges about 3 times what we do, sometimes more.  we can also get your car on a saturday morning and have a full cage in it by sunday evening (assuming the interior is already out), since we don't have cars lined up around the block yet.  hopefully one day, we'll have as a good a rep as that.  we do good work, and it keeps getting better.

There are several reasons why I charge more than you, I highly doubt three times though.

1) I have a real overhead, I don't work out of a garage.
2)Look at the quality of the fit, welding, and real engineering behind my cage designs.
3) I have an extremely large insurance policy, look at some of the cars that come into the shop, GT2's and Ruf r-turbos.
4) I am still cheeper than other shops doing the same quality of work I do, McGee, Racer's Group, Rolf, ect.

I don't mean to disrespect you, but you get what you pay for. And in this case we are talking about cages that could potentially save your life. I have built 57 cages THIS YEAR and have three cars in the shop currenty getting cages.

btw: your hourly rate is the same as mine according to your website.
-tony (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

i don't want to give the impression that i'm dissin' your work. i've had the chance to see a couple of your cages in person and they're awesome. in fact, we've learned loads by looking at them, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend you as a cage builder. just trying to get out there as a cheaper but not shoddy alternative.

[drew365]

I thought I'd use this thread to ask for some help. We are going to connect my cage to the rear shock towers in the very near future. If anyone could post pics on what others have done I'd appreciate it. I'm questioning whether I just need to attach a tube to the front of the tower or if a plate should be fabbed to the top of the shock mount itself?

[machina]

check my team website at:

http://www.synthesisdv.com/vg/vg%20complete.html

lower right pic shows how we did it. bent bars let us operate motor lid. Rules would not let us go to the tops of the shock towers but sides were ok.

TC design has some great pics of rear cage tubes. He triangulates back and then runs another tube forward and down low.

dr

[drew365]

Thanks, that helps alot.

[campbellcj]

FWIW my only "regret" about my TC Design cage, is that later (mine is a 2002 design) Tony improved his 914 cage design further and became an even better welder. Great work in my experience!

I am also thinking about doing the bulkhead bracing as I can afford the POC points, but I am not sure if it would be legal for VARA or HSR.

[Tony C]

For SCCA and most other sanctioning bodies you are NOT allowed to have any bends in the rear down bars.

You can check out what I did with Scott Yeaman's car here:

Scott's cage

-Tony

[machina]

For SCCA and most other sanctioning bodies you are NOT allowed to have any bends in the rear down bars.

You can check out what I did with Scott Yeaman's car here:

Scott's cage

-Tony

I remember dealing with the bent tube issue.

In the 2004 GCR, section 11.1.a.4 talks about the rear support tubes. They specify an angle no less than 30deg and the mounting not to be more than 6" below the rear hoop.

I don't see a line regarding bends exept where it says the bends must be gentle angles with no crimping or distortion, min radius is 3 times the tube dia.

I am refering to the production car rules in particular.

dr

[groot]

You've just touched upon one of the things that pisses me off about the organization of the GCR.......

Check out the section called BASIC DESIGN CONSIDERATIONS (18.1). There's a lot of stuff in that section that people forget about.

For this discussion, in section 18.1.6.C, it says, "....Rear hoop supports: No bends"

But, a buddy of mine just got his first tech inspection on his Miata with bent rear hoop supports and didn't get flagged on it.