stiff, Stiffer, STIFFEST... Options

[spdfrk]

I was wondering if someone could post the manufactures of some of the new after market frame re-inforcement products. I know of the obvious 10pc/swingarm kits and the original clamshells. But recently I have seen a much heavier guage clamshell kit, and an interior long/firewall kit, and it seems like I have seen 2 different types of the 10pc kit one which tied into the swing arm mounts I think? Who makes the 2 less convensional kits? And are there in fact different styles of the weld on multi-piece plate kits? Any manufactures of the above mentioned items please email me agconstruction_remodel_inc@msn.com

Thanks.

Alex

[Trekkor]

monday should prove to be eventful (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

pics to follow for you all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[J P Stein]

All the "stiffening kits" in the world don't equal a well built cage.....unless your car has rotted out (I see you are from Seattle), in which case, *just* replace the metal.

IMO, these kits are like fishing lures that are designed to catch fishermen's dollars.

[Bleyseng]

Hi newbie! Glad to see another Seattle guy!
The 10 pc kit is a waste of time, although the new inner long kit attacks the weakest point of a 914 so that should be worth it for a street car.
The clamshell repair kit is for rusty cars.

As JP says, a cage is the real deal for stiffening up a car although if your car is rusty it won't help fix that problem.

Tell us about your car and post some pics!!!!!!

Geoff (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[Jeroen]

Geeeeez... you guys are not of much help are you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Check this link for the inner reinforcement kit. This one seems to work nicely
inner longitudinal reinforcement kit

Also in the "resources and parts" forum, there's a link for Rich Johnson's GT-chassis reinforcement kit
Rich Johnson's Kit
There's been quite a bit of discussion if this kit really works (do a search)
IIRC the current opinion is that only a few pieces of this kit actually work, and some of the other pieces just add weight to your car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Then there is the clamshell kit for the outer longitudinals from Restoration Design
Restoration Design clamshells
These would be a good idea if you have rust issues on the outer longs...

Hope this helps...

cheers,

Jeroen

[J P Stein]

Yaroon:

It depends what your defination of "help" is.

The outer clam shell appears to be a good part.
It seems to add strength at (what I consider) the weakest part of the 914 unibody....not the whole answer, but a good part.

I don't want to spend my time bad mouthing the rest of the stuff. Suffice it to say, I feel no urge to install the fishing lures on my car.

[Trekkor]

This chassis stiffening kit only weighs about 20 or so pounds ( I'll weigh it ) so it seems like a small price to pay for added rigidity.

[J P Stein]

I've been building stuff for 40 years..."planes & boats & trains........". I don't design em', but have developed a pretty good feel for the concepts.

The "stiffening kit " stiffens in the verticle plane behind the swing arm mounts...plus a couple scab plates around the mounts. I had one (it came with a bunch of stuff I wanted), looked it over, figured how it had to be applied (see 40 years above) and sold it at a swap meet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I seam welded everything from the firewall to the trans mounts...no problems yet.

[lmcchesney]

A roll cage provides stiffness to the unibody and additionally, safety. It does add much more wieght than the longitudinal reinforcements of Engman. The thing a roll cage does not provide is the stiffness from the trailing arm mount to the rear shock mount, unless you tie the roll cage into the rear shock mount. This certainly can be done, but you have to check the rule book of what you are going to run in. Back to the begining, that same problem we all have had early on, what is it you want to achieve, then determine how best to get there.
Alex, have you had problems with flex, is there a rust problem, are you trying to shave 1-2 sec. off your lap time? Let us know. And of course, sometimes, we just feel like we have to add something.
L. McC

[seanery]

way wrong about the weight thing...I've got an autopower weld-in in the blue car and I've held Mark's inner reinforcement kit, there is no comparo, those things are no where near the weight of a full cage-not even just a roll-bar itself.

[IronHillRestorations]

I use the Brad Mayeur longitudinal kit, which ain't no "fishing lure". Anyone that's put these on a car will tell you there is a noticable difference, on the track and off.

I use the balance of the GT style chassis kit, which I get from Rich Johnson, and I also fabricate some additional pieces for the inner part of the longitudinals.

I also weld up as much of the chassis seams as possible (depending on the project).

Flexing of the rear part of the 914 chassis, isn't anything new. This is why the factory developed the first "gt kit". Anyone that's autocrossed a 914 without any chassis stiffening or reinforcement will have the stress cracks to prove you need additional chassis reinforcement. I agree 100% with L. McC that a cage won't help rear chassis flex.

The Restoration Design piece is a good part, but it won't do near as much as Brad's part. I'd consider it more of a "rustoration" part. It only goes back to where the outer suspension mount is welded to the longitudinal. Brad's part has a 90* shelf that supports the outer suspension mount better than anything I've seen, short of what you'd do on an all out race car. It's also got some rusty 914's back to useful service.

PK (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Trekkor]

O.K. The parts weigh in at 18#'s.
How can you go wrong?
I discovered my car has the thick sound deadening mat behind the seat back pad against the firewall.
The mat weighs in at 15#'s soooo....
It's a 3# add after I launch the mat!

[spdfrk]

Thanks everyone for the info. So the plan for the car is (76 2.0)- to add a 5 lug carrera front suspension, five lug rear. the car will be stripped down but have spartan interior. I just bought a '70 parts car today, and I plan on swapping bumpers, doors, and transplanting misc sheet metal as nes. had planned on seam welding the majority of the chassis, and adding a cage.
the car is also recieving 9"/11" GT flares, fairly "standard" auto-x susp., some HUGE airheart calipers up-front, from the 80's i think... and 16x9f and 16x11r Goti wheels.
the chassis is rusted through the top of the inner fender, and out the bottom at the firewall/floorpan. There is also some rust further down the long at the floor pan side. all of the floor pan is toast, the front and rear trunks have some spots rusted through. but very complete, better maint than most.
Why not restore the '70? its actually two cars joined in the middle, and if you saw the welds....
Car will retain the 4cyl but w/ dual webers, SS/Bursch system. Eventually I will swap a 6cyl.
So after all of that, Im thinking this chassis will be getting twisted a bit.
Thanks for any replies!

Alex