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> End Play Shimming Problem, I am stuck!
kkid
post Jul 25 2011, 02:12 PM
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Hey guys,

So I am trying to determine the crank shaft end play in order to change the clutch and flywheel. But I realized that the play is kinda large and 0.038" mm shim X3 is the only way to accomplish a correct spec. I have placed an order for the shims to Bus Depot and they were helpful but were taking a long time to locate those parts so I also ran to my local VW dealer then they got me wrong sized shims(and wrong quantity). Here is my question. Can I put 4 shims instead of 3. I know 2 is not good but why not 4 shims or even 5? I want to end this play soon. I am really tired of finding these parts. I am not ready for engine rebuilding at this moment. Just don't want to make it worse.

Thanks in advance for your insight and help!

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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914Mels
post Jul 25 2011, 03:11 PM
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Three shims is the correct set-up, if you need to use four shims you have a problem with the crank or rear main bearing. The shims don't come sized to put four in and get the correct end play. Wth no shims installed, set up your dial indicator and read you max endplay. From that reading you should be able to shuffle the stock sizes and get set up. Mike
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mgphoto
post Jul 26 2011, 09:58 AM
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QUOTE(kkid @ Jul 25 2011, 01:12 PM) *

Hey guys,

So I am trying to determine the crank shaft end play in order to change the clutch and flywheel. But I realized that the play is kinda large and 0.038" mm shim X3 is the only way to accomplish a correct spec. I have placed an order for the shims to Bus Depot and they were helpful but were taking a long time to locate those parts so I also ran to my local VW dealer then they got me wrong sized shims(and wrong quantity). Here is my question. Can I put 4 shims instead of 3. I know 2 is not good but why not 4 shims or even 5? I want to end this play soon. I am really tired of finding these parts. I am not ready for engine rebuilding at this moment. Just don't want to make it worse.

Thanks in advance for your insight and help!

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hello kkid,
I had a similar problem, I could not find the .38mm shims, no longer available, I got some from a type 4 rebuilder. 2 .38mm and a .24mm put my engine back to spec.
You have to use 3, if it is more than 3 x .38mm, I believe your main bearings are too worn and by increasing the size of the crankshaft end play you will be pushing your connecting rods forward and out of alignment with your pistons, this could cause a rod to bend or worse break.
I don't know about using more than 3, you might be able to get the right size, but I have never heard of anyone using more than 3, could be an oiling or fit problem.
Maybe someone with a little more experience could chine in!
Mike
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kkid
post Jul 26 2011, 11:14 AM
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QUOTE(mgphoto @ Jul 26 2011, 08:58 AM) *

QUOTE(kkid @ Jul 25 2011, 01:12 PM) *

Hey guys,

So I am trying to determine the crank shaft end play in order to change the clutch and flywheel. But I realized that the play is kinda large and 0.038" mm shim X3 is the only way to accomplish a correct spec. I have placed an order for the shims to Bus Depot and they were helpful but were taking a long time to locate those parts so I also ran to my local VW dealer then they got me wrong sized shims(and wrong quantity). Here is my question. Can I put 4 shims instead of 3. I know 2 is not good but why not 4 shims or even 5? I want to end this play soon. I am really tired of finding these parts. I am not ready for engine rebuilding at this moment. Just don't want to make it worse.

Thanks in advance for your insight and help!

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hello kkid,
I had a similar problem, I could not find the .38mm shims, no longer available, I got some from a type 4 rebuilder. 2 .38mm and a .24mm put my engine back to spec.
You have to use 3, if it is more than 3 x .38mm, I believe your main bearings are too worn and by increasing the size of the crankshaft end play you will be pushing your connecting rods forward and out of alignment with your pistons, this could cause a rod to bend or worse break.
I don't know about using more than 3, you might be able to get the right size, but I have never heard of anyone using more than 3, could be an oiling or fit problem.
Maybe someone with a little more experience could chine in!
Mike


Thanks guys for the info.
The end play I have now is 0.010"(0.254mm) with 3 existing shims and a flywheel(no seal or ring) in place. The shims are measured 0.33, 0.35 and anther 0.35. I guess they are all worn about 0.01mm each since they are not stock size according to the book I have. To get a 0.14mm end play(border?), they all need to be 0.38. Or can I add 4th shim of 0.13mm that my local VW dealer attempted to sell me?

Thanks,

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Drums66
post Jul 26 2011, 01:01 PM
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.......if you need more than 3....get on your knees & pray (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)(shims)
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mgphoto
post Jul 26 2011, 02:23 PM
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QUOTE(kkid @ Jul 26 2011, 10:14 AM) *

QUOTE(mgphoto @ Jul 26 2011, 08:58 AM) *

QUOTE(kkid @ Jul 25 2011, 01:12 PM) *

Hey guys,

So I am trying to determine the crank shaft end play in order to change the clutch and flywheel. But I realized that the play is kinda large and 0.038" mm shim X3 is the only way to accomplish a correct spec. I have placed an order for the shims to Bus Depot and they were helpful but were taking a long time to locate those parts so I also ran to my local VW dealer then they got me wrong sized shims(and wrong quantity). Here is my question. Can I put 4 shims instead of 3. I know 2 is not good but why not 4 shims or even 5? I want to end this play soon. I am really tired of finding these parts. I am not ready for engine rebuilding at this moment. Just don't want to make it worse.

Thanks in advance for your insight and help!

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Hello kkid,
I had a similar problem, I could not find the .38mm shims, no longer available, I got some from a type 4 rebuilder. 2 .38mm and a .24mm put my engine back to spec.
You have to use 3, if it is more than 3 x .38mm, I believe your main bearings are too worn and by increasing the size of the crankshaft end play you will be pushing your connecting rods forward and out of alignment with your pistons, this could cause a rod to bend or worse break.
I don't know about using more than 3, you might be able to get the right size, but I have never heard of anyone using more than 3, could be an oiling or fit problem.
Maybe someone with a little more experience could chine in!
Mike


Thanks guys for the info.
The end play I have now is 0.010"(0.254mm) with 3 existing shims and a flywheel(no seal or ring) in place. The shims are measured 0.33, 0.35 and anther 0.35. I guess they are all worn about 0.01mm each since they are not stock size according to the book I have. To get a 0.14mm end play(border?), they all need to be 0.38. Or can I add 4th shim of 0.13mm that my local VW dealer attempted to sell me?

Thanks,

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Most VW guys set up the end play for between .003" and .005" (metric is .08 to .13) at this point you are .124mm large, if you could pick up 2 .38mm and a new .36mm you would be at .13mm, try the classified section someone may have the shims.
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Jake Raby
post Jul 26 2011, 06:07 PM
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We have all the shims in stock, no matter the thickness.

3 shims are used for a very good reason.
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kkid
post Jul 27 2011, 09:02 AM
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QUOTE(Drums66 @ Jul 26 2011, 12:01 PM) *

.......if you need more than 3....get on your knees & pray (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)(shims)


Thanks for drumming. I am good at getting on my knees and probably praying too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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kkid
post Jul 27 2011, 09:11 AM
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Jul 26 2011, 05:07 PM) *

We have all the shims in stock, no matter the thickness.

3 shims are used for a very good reason.


Glad to hear from you, Jake! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

I have heard a good reason for the 3 shims but why not 4? I am being tempted to add 4th if there is no negative reason.

PM sent

kkid (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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