My v8 conversion thread, With pics, progress, questions ect!! Options

[Andyrew]

So making it official I am making this my one v8 progress thread, I will possibly post questions about the conversion elswhere, but my progress will go here.
Anyways, the story..
Knowing that I needed a new engine, I searched for some conversions, finding a few, then falling through, I ask about a v8 conversion, two guys here generously said that they will help and sell me some of their stuff. Together I will be able to make a nice conversion on a very limited budget. Here I will take the time to thanks Scott K and Steve H for what they have done and what they will do.

Anyways with that, I then went to pick and pull and found a 305 engine from some later car. We look all around and cant find an engine number.. Hey, its a v8, we need to pull something, Lets just do it (im very glad I said that..)
We then get the engine home and I plop off the valve covers and find that it has 350 heads(via the number), hmm.. Interesting... So I go and find the block number look it up. Sure enough, its a 350 block. Well thats not enough for me, I take it apart check the bore, theck the stroke, Yuppers 4in bore, something or other stroke, Yup its definately a 350! Whats not known is why it was in a 305 car.. So checking the pistons dad says there high compression, I wouldnt know any better.
So then talking about radiators, Mike Mueller kindly offers me his (very large) aluminum radiator for cheep. I take him up on his offer and drive to his house to see his garage packed with neet toys! Thanks mike for the walk through! We enjoyed it!
So we go home, and later in the week(yesterday) I start taking off the pistons, I get one off and clean it, trying to find an overbore number.. Cant fine one Check the bearings, they have .0005 on them. No clue what that means...
Anyways, while taking out the rest of the pistons dad stares at something for a second, laughs, and shows me that it is a 4 bolt main. So, now where very curious to why it was in a regular family car.. 84 or such.

Anyways, enough with the gabber, heres my list of pics..

[John2kx]

Not the best pic of how to connect hoses to a Holley but all I have.

The three hoses connected to carb are as follows:

Large, medium and small........viewed left to right

Large goes to PCV on valve cover.

Medium is self explanatory (carb to carb connection)

Small hose is connected to vacumm advance on dist.

John

[John2kx]

sorry.......did not attach

[dan10101]

Maybe Dad could be talked into looking at the secondaries with the targa removed while your driving : )

Dad does not want to have his head over the carb while the car is running... lol

[Andyrew]

Thanks all.. Thanks John for the pics, I'll see what I can do about the mounts. In what order did you install the mounts? Trani to adapter to body?

I'll try the holley as well with those hose attachments, I dont think we had them all like that.

Andrew

[John2kx]

In what order did you install the mounts? Trani to adapter to body?

Don't think this is critical but I installed the sport mounts firmly, then installed the remaining pieces loose. With the engine beam mounting bolts loose, I positioned engine fore/aft, left right until the large bolts that go through tranny ear were lined up, ie, no binding fore/aft or side to side. Then tighten everything up. Don't be surprised if you have to make a clutch cable or shift linkage adjustment if the engine is moved fore or aft. Never had the tranny move in two years of operation using this method.

Do pay attention to where washers are installed or ommited as compared to your setup, and the size and thickness used. (there has to be a good footprint between rubber and metal for this setup to work right). Installed correctly, you will keep everything in place when you squeeze the power on.

John

[soloracer]

I was considering using solid tranny mounts. Do you foresee any problems going this way? (Ie: cracking of chassis, etc.) Since my car will be mainly used for track events I'm not really worried about any vibration that might be transferred to the driver.

[John2kx]

Sorry, I'm no expert on what to use for a track car. Maybe Brad will jump in here and provide some useful information.

John

[Andyrew]

Brad hasnt said anything yet... period..

I figure he's ignoring this thread (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


Anyways.. I fixed the mounts, and I think I got it in right... I think what happened was that we hit a bump and the trani shifted... Since I didnt have them in correctly it just moved...

Sooooo I drove it, gave it a little throttle, and WAM it seems very responsive to me! I maybe gave it 1/4 throttle... I was only going around the block so there wasnt much I could do...

Sooooo With a big thumbs up I decide to let dad drive it.. Well he waited to give it ANY gas (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) ... So when he finally gets on it, he floors it.. Ehh.. still slow.. but wait, he's franticly reaching over and I hear a little rrRRRR as the clutch goes in and he shuts it off... "Great, Another throttle cable broke.... grrrrr" thinks I... Well the throttle cable didnt break, and but there was a washer that was holding the secondary's on the Q jet open... take it out and dad says he thinks thats it...

We checked the trani bolts (I marked em with a black marker) and there fine.

We went out again, nope, still no power... At this point, I've just about thrown a fit... I get my hopes up and WAM get shot down AGAIN!!! So dad drives it around more, longest trip... Driving around its about 185-170.. get home.. shut it off.. and in 2 mins the engine is at 230.... radiator is cool.. so keeping the fan on just doesnt make sense.. but hey, we leave the fan on anyways every time we shut the car off. So I just get even more angry... this happens EVERY TIME. 40 degree increase in temp when the car gets shut off? And I bet when If I start it it will jump RIGHT back down to 190 (like it did last night....) I need a little bigger reserve/overflow tank because when the engine shuts off, the water just expands, and the pressure builds and it just goes right out the overflow thing on the cap and fills up the tank.... I had maybe one cup of air left in that overflow tank.... I Think I need a bigger one... lol. And a higher pressure cap (what, 16-18lbs isnt enough? SHEESH)

So problems... (summary...)

No power still

battery ground cable broke on the tightening end.. need to get another one of those.. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (causes many problems...

overheat 40 degree increase when engine shuts off

Me getting frustrated.. angry... tired.. lack of hope

andrew

[Slowpoke]

I haven't read every single post, but, have you checked to make sure the vacum advance and centrifical (spelling) advance in the distributer is working. Cause that's what this is sounding like to me. Try another distributer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[skline]

Ok, well let me pass on some information I got from Renegade the other day when I was talking to Mike over there. I told him about the black car that Joe bought and how the temp goes up when you drop the idle down after running and then it goes back down after a minute or so and when you shut it off the temp goes up, he simply and confidently stated that there was air in the system. He said bleed it again and again till it all comes out. I hope this helps you with the over heating issue.

[Andyrew]

Theres air in the system because of my overflow tank thingy...

I'll get the air out somehow (somehow...)

Slowpoke.. Its a new (read completly new) dizzy. And I plugged the advance off.. last run.

This is a 250hp engine (350 tq).. It might make 200 hp with the advance off... but its currently about 100. That is NOT the problem.

[scruz914]

Driving around its about 185-170..  get home.. shut it off.. and in 2 mins the engine is at 230.... radiator is cool.. so keeping the fan on just doesnt make sense.. but hey, we leave the fan on anyways every time we shut the car off. So I just get even more angry... this happens EVERY TIME. 40 degree increase in temp when the car gets shut off? And I bet when If I start it it will jump RIGHT back down to 190 (like it did last night....)

andrew

Andrew,
An increase in temp is normal when the fluid is not flowing. When you turn the engine off the fluid stops flowing and you will get a very high reading. If you start it right back up the temps will drop. You may want to wait a few minutes before shutting the engine down if you are worried about too high temps. My experience is from a water cooled engine in my VW bus. As soon as I shut the thing off, the temps shot up. If I immediately started the engine back up the temps would drop.

-Jeff

[Andyrew]

Ya, but the water (yes, im running straight water) is poping the pressure cap and filling my overflow tank, then it boils (then spews out..). So dad says we might be running a 50% mix to try and raise the boiling point.

[Andyrew]

Levi When would be a good time to call tomorrow? We'll be workin on the car till about 4pm (I got work then..)

[Andyrew]

Will add some coolant, and water wetter tomorrow...

still doesnt help the engine problem though... lol

Any clues to sleep on?

[dan10101]

Sometimes we just can't see the forest because all the trees get in the way...

Coolant going in tomorrow.

So, if we decide to use Water Wetter instead, how much should be used for effective cooling?

[Andyrew]

Well.... its slow.... past 1/4 throttle it just makes loud "working" noises and doesnt have much "go".....

You know... THAT engine problems...

I fixed the mounting, and the cable... cable? throttle cable oh, no thats fine.

[John2kx]

After reading your entire post again (it's been a while), it sounds like more of a problem with the timing/distributor since you have had the same results using two different carbs. Here are a couple of things I would try.

Are you sure the distributor is installed correctly? I had a mark on harmonic balancer to know when at TDC. You'd have to pull #1 plug to verify your on compression stroke and then ensure dist. rotor is pointing at #1 on cap. A finger in the spark plug hole of #1 while someone is bumping over the engine is the easiest way of determining if your on compression stroke or not.

If this checks out good, you could make small changes to distributor position while out on the road. Just don't fully tighten distributor hold down bolt and make small changes until you see improvement. Mark dist. and intake before you start and make changes 1/8" at a time until you see improvement. Work both sides of your reference mark to make sure you try advance and retarded timing positions. I'd also double check to make sure the plug wires are installed on their right cylinders. A bad set of plug wires could also be the cause and it's not clear to me if these were new or not during your rebuild. A Camaro I once owned ran fine at idle and mid throttle but was a dog when the throttle was at 1/2 or more.......ended up being a worn set of wires.

Your cooling system issue where your temps. are OK while driving but overfilling expansion tank could be better diagnosed if you posted a pic of how this is installed. Might just be a bad radiator cap. 16 lb. is what Renegade recommends with their setup. Your not using theirs, so a change to 18 lb. or so might be worth a try. If your timing is way off, the over filling of expansion tank might just cure itself.

Did you break the cam in correctly? (2000-2500 rpm for 20 minutes the first time engine ran) A friend of mine wiped a few lobes of his cam last year during his break in and suffered from lack of power. I do not know how to check this with engine assembled. Maybe pull the valve covers and rotate engine while viewing rocker arm operation???

It was not clear in your post what fuel pump your using. Your symptoms do sound like this could also be the cause (starvation when demand is high). You should also check sump in fuel tank for build up of sludge and condition of sock/filter. Disconnecting fuel inlet at carb. and routing to some type of collection device while activating fuel pump could give you a indication if some type of restriction is present.

Good luck........I'm sure you'll get this one figured out soon.

John

[dan10101]

Aside from cooling, we're running into the power drag problem...

Here's what we know so far..

The problem: Under moderate to heavy throttle in 2-4 gear the car feels like there is a trailer loaded with a ton of bricks holding the car back.

Under light throttle, the car responds well.

The engine stops very quickly once the idle is turned down or timing is changed. In other words it's tight. Granted it's all new components.

Tried both carbs. Problem is similar with both. A/F is close enough to not cause this problem. 12-13 under full throttle.

Tried some different timing settings, no change.

Possible problems. (brainstorming here so nothing gets ruled out)

1) Binding in the drive axles.
2) Missmatch in the connection from SBC to Transaxle
3) Internal engine problems.
4) Secondaries not opening. (ruled out with changing carbs)
5) Plugged Cat and/or muffler
6) flapper valve on the one exhaust manifold closing somehow forcing all exhaust thru the intake and out the other exhaust.
7) Transaxle failure(dragging) under high torque
8) brakes draggin. (rolls fine so not likely)
9) squating under throttle causing something to drag (like the axle)
10) Distributor to far advanced or retarded
11) Completly mismatched engine components killing all HP.


There must be a couple more I'm missing
Be blunt. We'd just like to solve this so he can start driving the car.

We get to play with it again on Friday. So we'll have some time to think about next steps.


Dan

This was burried quick, so I'll bring it to the top.

The Qjet is on the car now and seems ok. Full throttle gave us a good 4bb Qjet sound like it should. A/F readings were good as mentioned. Which port should the Vaccum advance be connected to? The one I picked was off the back-bottom of the carb, but caused immediate pull on the Vac advance. Possible that the idle is too high?

Redoing the trans mount seems to help. But the trans hub is lower than the wheel hub. Upon acceleration it must be dipping more expecially with 2 people in the car. Not sure how much the axles can be out of square before they start having problems.

[John2kx]

Redoing the trans mount seems to help. But the trans hub is lower than the wheel hub. Upon acceleration it must be dipping more expecially with 2 people in the car. Not sure how much the axles can be out of square before they start having problems.

Dan,

This is how my axles looked with car fully assembled and tires planted on ground. You may be onto something but you mentioned being able to roll the car by hand. Maybe try rolling it with 1-2 people inside.

I could shift my axles side to side at least 1/8" or more while in the air or when planted on ground.

John