Roll bar for street car, - what recommendation? Options

[freestone]

For a street only (well maybe a few DE's per year) 914-6 with a hot 2.7RS, I feel that it would be nice to have a roll bar - not a full cage.

Does that make sense for safety?

Would I get substantial stiffening benefits?

I am tall and don't want to sacrifice headroom or legroom - and I do want this to be unobtrusive.

What would you do?

Thanks!

[rick 918-S]

Roll bars on the street are dangerous unless you are wearing a full harness and helmet. All it would take is a simple parking lot bump and WACK! Cracked skull, whiplash, and other nasty things you don't want and or need. Wait until you build a proper track car and purchase the proper gear.

[Steve]

I put in an Autopower roll bar and I am very happy with it.
It does tie the top sides (mounts to seatbelt holes) and the frame rails together.
I think it helped stiffen the chassis.
I did hear that a roll cage stiffens it even more.
The only thing the roll bar interfered with was the drivers door side pocket.
I drilled two new holes in the door and moved the pocket forward 1/2".

Steve

[freestone]

I would also want to be able to put the targa top on. And not have the forward brace. Basically unobtrusive, but is that too much to the detriment of functionality to be worth it?

[EdwardBlume]

With a real 6 take it to a pro who knows what they are doing and get it done right. I have a roll bar over a cage because I wanted the dual purpose. I disagree about a roll bar being a "safety" device. In truth, the windshield will cave and your face is toast if you really think about it.

The ride is definately stiffer, especially with the "right" suspension. I didn't have to move my door pocket forward but getting the roof latched on is tougher now. Some say that you have to decide whether you keep the backpad in or not. On a 6 thats a tougher choice. I was able to get the backpad in and out by not keeping all 3 pieces connected.

Here's a pict:

[EdwardBlume]

Oh and don't get a bolt on roll bar... I chose not to since two to four bolts will flex and twist more than a welded on plate.

[seanery]

I agree with Rich. I think they are dangerous for the street. If you are just doing the occasional DE, then I wouldn't put one in. If you want to use 5 point harnesses, then get a harness bar. I have 2 914s, one is a street car and the other a track car, one with a cage, the other without.

It's your noggin, but I wouldn't do it.

[EdwardBlume]

I'm not worried about my roll bar. I sit low and tie myself up tight in the 5 pt. If I go flying I'm not dyin'.

[rick 918-S]

I'm not worried about my roll bar. I sit low and tie myself up tight in the 5 pt. If I go flying I'm not dyin'.

Ya, the belting is the key. But people get lulled into a state of mind like, I'm just going to the mall, all I need is the lap belt... Then WAM!

[SirAndy]

I would also want to be able to put the targa top on. And not have the forward brace. Basically unobtrusive, but is that too much to the detriment of functionality to be worth it?

top still fits! there's plenty of room under the top in the back, it does NOT sit flush on the targa bar.
with the top on, you can easily put your hand in there.
the cage was designed to still fit under the top once the padding is added ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Andy

(IMG:http://www.sirandy.com/pix/914/2003.04.01/IMGP1613.jpg)

[Steve]

The Autopower roll bar still works fine with the top and you can still reach the rear levers to remove the top.
The drivers seat is also not effected by the roll bar.
For normal street driving I don't use the rear brace or the forward brace to the passenger floor.
However for autocross events the forward brace is great for mounting a video camera to so you can watch all your autocross mistakes at a later date.

I'm curious if you can still remove the back pad with Andy's welded in roll bar??

I also heard that with full cages you can't roll down the windows with the door closed.
This forces most people to install electic windows.

Steve

[SirAndy]

I'm curious if you can still remove the back pad with Andy's welded in roll bar??

I also heard that with full cages you can't roll down the windows with the door closed.
This forces most people to install electic windows.

no backpad no more. i had to take it out before the cage went in, i didn't like it anyways, so that wasn't a big deal for me.

as for the windows, plenty of room to roll 'em up/down with tony's design ...
all i need to do is to add a GT-style latch for closing the door as the stock handle thingy doesn't fit anymore.
Andy

(IMG:http://www.sirandy.com/pix/914/2003.10.01/13.JPG)

[Martin Baker]

........

[Duffster]

I had mine put in under and against the bottom of the targa bar. If the seats were lowered, I'd be PCA legal with the 1.5 inch clearance, but I haven't gotten that far yet. The bar is back far enough to leave about .25 inch clearance to the rear window, so it doesn't seem to be an issue for a whiplash bump.

It stiffened the car tremendously... Wow what a difference!!! We welded the diagonal bar to a notch in the firewall and most of the back pad still fits, as well as stiffening that whole thing.

IMHO, you would have to be singularly nuts, even with the motor you're running to get your car upside down under non-race-in-anger conditions. I had mine installed because I live in the "Inland Empire", a land of the inverse relationship between the lift kit of pickups / SUVs and the IQs of their drivers. I call it my "Pam Bar" after my neighbor who drives her 12 inch lifted Excursion while putting on her makeup, drinking coffee, eating a bagel, talking on her cell phone, swatting her children and still has a hand free to flip people off who cross her path in what she deems an inapropriate manner. I had nightmares about her 40" diameter "Baja-Claw" tires smashing me through the floor pan. In the dream she says "Oh shit! ooops!" and keeps driving.

[Aaron Cox]

I had mine put in under and against the bottom of the targa bar. If the seats were lowered, I'd be PCA legal with the 1.5 inch clearance, but I haven't gotten that far yet. The bar is back far enough to leave about .25 inch clearance to the rear window, so it doesn't seem to be an issue for a whiplash bump.

It stiffened the car tremendously... Wow what a difference!!! We welded the diagonal bar to a notch in the firewall and most of the back pad still fits, as well as stiffening that whole thing.

IMHO, you would have to be singularly nuts, even with the motor you're running to get your car upside down under non-race-in-anger conditions. I had mine installed because I live in the "Inland Empire", a land of the inverse relationship between the lift kit of pickups / SUVs and the IQs of their drivers. I call it my "Pam Bar" after my neighbor who drives her 12 inch lifted Excursion while putting on her makeup, drinking coffee, eating a bagel, talking on her cell phone, swatting her children and still has a hand free to flip people off who cross her path in what she deems an inapropriate manner. I had nightmares about her 40" diameter "Baja-Claw" tires smashing me through the floor pan. In the dream she says "Oh shit! ooops!" and keeps driving.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) its so true! how much was your cage?

[Duffster]

It would up being about sixteen hun with the braces to the rear struts yet to be installed. Its made of .125 wall, which is a bitch to bend unless you are your size and have a real long handle. That included glassing and reupolstering the door pocket/fitting the back pad, cleaning up the floor pan...

[Duffster]

'nother

[Duffster]

yet another...

[Duffster]

'gain...

[pbanders]

I'm not worried about my roll bar. I sit low and tie myself up tight in the 5 pt. If I go flying I'm not dyin'.

Don't kid yourself. Unless you've every been in an accident you have no idea of the forces involved. Even with the tightest belts you flop around like a rag doll in a side collision. You want your head to hit either a: nothing, b: an air bag (not an option in the 914). You DON'T want it to hit a steel tube rigidly attached to the chassis. Even hurts like hell with a helmet. Street roll bars are a bad idea, IMO.