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> building a 1911 from a 1.7, will my existing heads work?
HAM Inc
post Aug 27 2011, 02:29 PM
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QUOTE
have you ever tried this with 2.0 liter heads?
Some sort of cylinder ring might do the trick...

Wondering if this setup, with the higher flowing heads, may get to that magic 40mpg number....


The nice thing about the long stroke-small bore is that the intent is to build torque at low speeds, which benefits/needs smaller ports for velocity.

I suppose one could devise a way to install the 2.0 914 heads, but that would defeat the purpose of the design.

For the street the longer the stroke the better IMO. I like my torque down low and lots of it.

Sometime back Jake and I collaborated on a powerplant built to the 90.5 x 78.4 specs with 1.7Q heads that had 40x34mm valves and relocated plugs. IIRC it ended up in a Ghia that broke well over 40mpg hwy.
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pete-stevers
post Aug 27 2011, 03:22 PM
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What type of carbs did you run in that set up?
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bam914
post Aug 27 2011, 03:27 PM
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My dad has a 1911 in his 914. Len did the heads. They are 1.7L with 42I 36E. It is 9.0 to 1 and has a Raby cam in it. Not the 9550. He is running 40 webers with stock SS heat exhangers. It made 95whp and I think 105 wtq. It is a good engine that is not expensive to build.
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HAM Inc
post Aug 27 2011, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE
What type of carbs did you run in that set up?


I don't remember what it ended up with. Once the heads left my shop I lost track of what they ended up using. The customer feedback came to me months (maybe more than a year) after I did the heads.


QUOTE
My dad has a 1911 in his 914. Len did the heads. They are 1.7L with 42I 36E. It is 9.0 to 1 and has a Raby cam in it. Not the 9550. He is running 40 webers with stock SS heat exhangers. It made 95whp and I think 105 wtq. It is a good engine that is not expensive to build.


Yeah I know your dad is really happy with that engine. And it is a pretty affordable, reliable, easy upgrade.
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bradtho
post Aug 27 2011, 11:40 PM
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OK, so Ham says no-go on boring my OE 1.7 cylinders to 96mm. anybody know what you can bore them out to and still have a very reliable engine? this is my DD so reliability is a big thing for me.

Opinions on if I should give up on my OE cylinders and just get some chinese instead? I've been under the impression that the original german cylinders were generally of much higher quality and might be worth preserving. If that's all just typical anti-china internet hype, then maybe I'm better off getting the 96's?

money-wise it's largely a wash, so ending up with the highest quality engine is really the goal with the cylinders.
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HAM Inc
post Aug 28 2011, 07:59 AM
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I'm not going to comment on the Chinese cylinders other than to report that they don't all come out the same size, so if you do buy a set, take them to a shop along with the pistons and have the clearances measured.

If you do use the Chinese cylinders save/sell your good used 1.7 cylinders. They can be bored for 90.5 pistons for someone who wants to build the long stroke/small bore 2.liter.
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ripper911
post Aug 28 2011, 05:38 PM
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QUOTE(bam914 @ Aug 27 2011, 05:27 PM) *

My dad has a 1911 in his 914. Len did the heads. They are 1.7L with 42I 36E. It is 9.0 to 1 and has a Raby cam in it. Not the 9550. He is running 40 webers with stock SS heat exhangers. It made 95whp and I think 105 wtq. It is a good engine that is not expensive to build.

He says the one that he built for me is very similar, and I am very happy with it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
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Dave_Darling
post Aug 28 2011, 06:21 PM
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There were 96es that fit 1.7 heads. They were very thin, and tended to leak and warp. That could be where some of the confusion comes from--it can be done, but usually leads to problems.

--DD
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rhodyguy
post Jun 25 2015, 06:12 PM
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interesting what you can find with a tablet. jake's take on heads, what fits and what doesn't without any additional machining in particular. scroll down a bit.
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LukeD
post Jun 25 2015, 10:23 PM
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QUOTE(jmill @ Aug 27 2011, 01:18 PM) *

QUOTE(7275914911 @ Aug 27 2011, 11:00 AM) *

Try this one....
1911 Recipe


That's it!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) Thanks for the link. Below is some cut and paste info from the other site.

-7.7:1
-RAT 9550
-1.7"Q" heads opened to 105mm register size (2.0) with 42X36 valves and no port work, by HAM.
-Relocated spark plugs
-stock crank and rods
-RAT 96mm KB pistons and cylinders
-RAT oil pump
-36mm Weber carbs
-Mallory Unilite dizzy

This is a D Jet compatible Combo.


Will my 1.7 liter D-jet setup work with a build like this or will it require modification?
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Dave_Darling
post Jun 26 2015, 08:49 AM
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It'll require some tweaking of the MPS, and possibly other adjustments.

--DD
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lonewolfe
post Aug 3 2015, 01:50 AM
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QUOTE(HAM Inc @ Aug 28 2011, 06:59 AM) *

I'm not going to comment on the Chinese cylinders other than to report that they don't all come out the same size, so if you do buy a set, take them to a shop along with the pistons and have the clearances measured.

If you do use the Chinese cylinders save/sell your good used 1.7 cylinders. They can be bored for 90.5 pistons for someone who wants to build the long stroke/small bore 2.liter.


I know this thread is old but who makes the 90.5 Pistons and where do you buy them? Are these VW Type 1 Mahle "B" Pistons?
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914_teener
post Aug 3 2015, 09:48 AM
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QUOTE(lonewolfe @ Aug 3 2015, 12:50 AM) *

QUOTE(HAM Inc @ Aug 28 2011, 06:59 AM) *

I'm not going to comment on the Chinese cylinders other than to report that they don't all come out the same size, so if you do buy a set, take them to a shop along with the pistons and have the clearances measured.

If you do use the Chinese cylinders save/sell your good used 1.7 cylinders. They can be bored for 90.5 pistons for someone who wants to build the long stroke/small bore 2.liter.


I know this thread is old but who makes the 90.5 Pistons and where do you buy them? Are these VW Type 1 Mahle "B" Pistons?



I am still contemplating this as well as I get ready to pull the trigger. I seem to recall the Len was no longer doing the Q heads. I also have heard that the long stroke smaller bore engine produces lots of torque quickly with those heads meaning the 1.7 heads.

Anybody have any experience with a longer stroke smaller bore engine? No hijack intended.
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lonewolfe
post Aug 3 2015, 10:35 AM
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Who makes and sells the 90.5 stroker pistons?
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rhodyguy
post Aug 3 2015, 10:37 AM
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read jakes take on the 1.8 heads. in most cases they are the least expensive to acquire.
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914work
post Nov 2 2017, 02:18 PM
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Resurrection:
No one appeared to answer the question for sourcing the small dia. P&C's referred to?
Pin height? Off the shelf or custom?
The other related question is the 78.4mm rod length, is that an existing Rod from another application or a custom rod?
I ask because I have 3 or 4 core 1.7L's hanging around here & I should do SOMETHING with them...
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Dave_Darling
post Nov 2 2017, 05:28 PM
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Check with AA Pistons. The 90.5 were a stock replacement overbore part, at least in theory.

When you talk about the rod length, do you mean "rods for a crank that has a 78.4mm stroke"? If so, I believe those cranks are usually ground with Type I journals, or sometimes with Rabbit journals. There are a lot of aftermarket rods you can get for either of those motors.

--DD
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914_teener
post Nov 2 2017, 07:09 PM
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Wow....it is hard to believe that was two years ago now.

I ended up selling my 1.8 heads for that reason and then the 2.0 castings became available.
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Montreal914
post Nov 2 2017, 08:14 PM
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About 30 years ago (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I had a 1776cc type 1 (Beetle) which was 69 x 90.5.
They were CIMA pistons. Could this be what this old thread was referring to? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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914work
post Nov 2 2017, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE(Montreal914 @ Nov 2 2017, 07:14 PM) *

About 30 years ago (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I had a 1776cc type 1 (Beetle) which was 69 x 90.5.
They were CIMA pistons. Could this be what this old thread was referring to? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Yes I found those Kits are still available.
I was unaware a T1 cylinder could be mated to a T4 case. Arent the registers ..smaller?
@Dave yes I should have used "Rods / crank to attain" a 78.4mm stroke.
So as Jake likes to say , its all in the Combo...?
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