 What type of bracing for large motor 914's?, If I go big...what do I need to brace? |
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| nine14cats |
  Jul 18 2004, 11:10 AM
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#1
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo  Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None  |
I'm currently scheming on my motor rebuild for my 914. I don't have a lack of ideas to spend my money. I know of 8 engines including mine in various states that I can get a hold of to stuff in.
If I go to a bigger motor (3.4 or 3.6) what do I need to reinforce in my 914's chassis to handle the added torque? I've got the trans covered...If I go big I'll go big on the gearbox also (can you say WEVO, close ratio!)..... $$$$$$$$ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/barf.gif) Of course I can stay with my 2.7 / 901 combo for another fun season...and that may happen to get the car up again before the end of this year...but I may just buy one of these bad boy large motor longblocks and have fun during the winter.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Any suggestions on bracing? Pics? Thanks, Bill P. |
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| john rogers |
Jul 18 2004, 11:49 AM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,525 Joined: 4-March 03 From: Chula Vista CA Member No.: 391 |
If you have large wheel/tires too, I would say to brace the suspension console so the added power does not rip it apart. If the trailing arms are not boxed I would do them also. Finally, the "GT" type sheetmetal reenforcement kit would be beneficial. Good luck.
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| ArtechnikA |
Jul 18 2004, 12:01 PM
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#3
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
trailing arms and GT bracing are controversial, at least. i would -not- box the trailing arms. there is little evidence the GT 'reinforcement' panels do anything good unless you are trying to reproduce a factory GT clone where it's a cosmetic necessity...
once upon a time i was all set to do both, but we have learned a lot in the intervening 30 years. |
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| J P Stein |
Jul 18 2004, 01:10 PM
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#4
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Since the motor is out.........
The inner suspension mounts would be a good place to start. For all the "stuff" on the market for "strengthing" the frame/suspension, this is the weak link and nothing is offered to get after it. The more grip you've got, the more danger of failure. One of these days,I'm gonna have to come up with something.....hopefully, it will be at my leisure and not by necessity. You've already got the spring towers tied into the cage, right?.....and the trans mount channel braced into that? A well built, hotrod 3.4L would be nice..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/burnout.gif) less hassle than a 3.6L......since we're spending your money. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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| nine14cats |
Jul 18 2004, 01:49 PM
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#5
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
Other than a full cage I have not tied anything together yet. That's why with the car in pieces I can have the welding done now.
Yep...a nice 3.4L...couple of ways to go. Destroke a modern 3.6 or take a base 3.0/3.2 and go big....all of it sounds like fun. Money will be an issue...but it normally is for anything on this car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) I guess I'll give Tony C a call and pick his brain...I can drop off the car and have it back in plenty of time to stuff the engine back in. Bill P. |
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| Trekkor |
Jul 18 2004, 06:25 PM
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#6
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
Bill, I know you passed on the Griggs motor, trans and tub combo.
I think you should go look at it for yourself. I saw it and it is stored indoors up off the ground. I think he told you it has " moss " on it. He told me " fuzz ". The reality is it has mild oxidation/scale on the timing chain covers. I'd arrange to run and dyno that race motor and make an offer. That's me with your money or me if I had my own money. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol2.gif) He said the trans is a 915 built box, if he didn't tell you. His shop is next door to Racer's Group at the track. Trekkor |
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| nine14cats |
Jul 18 2004, 06:37 PM
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#7
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
Hi Trekkor,
Thanks for the info. When I talked to Griggs, he said he wouldn't part the motor separate from the rest of the stuff. I don't want the tub, so the draw wasn't that strong. I talked to him at length on the phone and he said the tranny was a built 901, not a 915. Besides....I'm going bigger. I'll either run my 2.7 again while building a bigger motor or I will just go straight to a bigger motor. Haven't decided...but I'm trying to convince myself to stay down for as long as it takes to finish what I want, including skipping next yer if I have to. Tough choices...but like everyone else I am fiscally challenged. Thanks, Bill P. |
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| john rogers |
Jul 18 2004, 10:49 PM
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#8
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,525 Joined: 4-March 03 From: Chula Vista CA Member No.: 391 |
Here's a small pict of the rear suspension console brace we use. Made of cro-moly tube with adjustable ends. It has been used since the early 80's and kept the console from ripping despite offs, spins, etc with slicks.
Attached image(s) 
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| Mueller |
Jul 18 2004, 11:03 PM
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#9
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None 
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Bill,
Do you have a full cage??? If so, what ID/OD is it and how close are you to the wieght limit if it is the "smaller" tubing? I big motor w/915 might push the weight up too high for some cages to be legal.....just food for thought (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| nine14cats |
Jul 21 2004, 11:50 AM
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#10
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
bump...
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| ChrisFoley |
Jul 21 2004, 02:41 PM
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#11
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,927 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None
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This is what I do Bill.
(IMG:http://www.tangerineracing.com/images/Suspension&Brakes/rearsusp_reinf.JPG) Attached image(s) 
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| J P Stein |
Jul 21 2004, 02:48 PM
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#12
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
I like that. Gonna stare at them pics summore (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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| nine14cats |
Jul 21 2004, 03:01 PM
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#13
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Bill Pickering -- 914-6 GT aka....Leeloo Group: Members Posts: 2,618 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 287 Region Association: None |
Hi Chris,
Would that be good enough for the torque of a 3.6 motor? The engine is out right now...so I could get all this stuff done before stuffing in the new motor... I'm with JP, I gonna stare at those pics for awhile! Bill P. |
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| Mueller |
Jul 21 2004, 03:08 PM
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#14
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914 Freak! Group: Members Posts: 17,146 Joined: 4-January 03 From: Antioch, CA Member No.: 87 Region Association: None
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Chris, do you ever see the need to reinforce the transmission mounting sheetmetal?
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| ChrisFoley |
Jul 21 2004, 03:52 PM
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#15
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,927 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(nine14cats @ Jul 21 2004, 05:01 PM) Would that be good enough for the torque of a 3.6 motor? I think it will take at least 300hp with 12" wide tires. QUOTE do you ever see the need to reinforce the transmission mounting sheetmetal? I've never done it yet, unless the trunk floor was cut out. Based on the extent of damage to my car from hitting the Armco I'd say that area is pretty stiff and doesn't really need reinforcing. Maybe a small tube from the shock towers on each side, but no need to cross them like I've seen on other cars. Actually it is probably better to do any reinforcements there, on the underside, from the rear of the longitudinal to the trans. bracket. Without the trunk sheetmetal I would do something like this. Attached image(s) 
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| Jeroen |
Jul 21 2004, 04:21 PM
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#16
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,887 Joined: 24-December 02 From: The Netherlands Member No.: 3 Region Association: Europe |
I like this one
(IMG:http://www.tangerineracing.com/images/Suspension&Brakes/rearsusp_reinf.JPG) But call me paranoia, I'd hate it if (30+ year old) threads in the nuts on the top of the outer susp. console would shred or if the bolts broke. You'd have to cut it all out to access it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) This may be over the top, but I can't help liking it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.vehiclecraft.com/pictures/Cust_cars/Dolbow/images/0014_JPG.jpg) I'm gonna try and get as close to this as I can... More cool stuff here www.vehiclecraft.com/custcars.html Check out Tony C's site as well for some good ideas www.tcdesignfab.com cheers, Jeroen |
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| Demick |
Jul 21 2004, 04:39 PM
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#17
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Ernie made me do it! Group: Benefactors Posts: 2,312 Joined: 6-February 03 From: Pleasanton, CA Member No.: 257  |
The GGR rule book discusses some 914 bracing. Some looks very similar to what Racer Chris shows.
Scroll down to the bottom: http://www.pca-ggr.org/ggrrb5.html |
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| Randal |
Jul 21 2004, 05:03 PM
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#18
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,446 Joined: 29-May 03 From: Los Altos, CA Member No.: 750 |
Bill,
Check with Mike A. up in Sacramento. He has installed a 996 in his 914; in fact it at Tony's shop right now, less engine. Randal |
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| ChrisFoley |
Jul 21 2004, 06:03 PM
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#19
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,927 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(Jeroen @ Jul 21 2004, 06:21 PM) call me paranoia, I'd hate it if (30+ year old) threads in the nuts on the top of the outer susp. console would shred or if the bolts broke. You'd have to cut it all out to access it :blink: Piece of cake! Actually, that already happened to a customer of mine who had this mod already done by me. He broke a bolt, and there was no way to get it back out, after he broke 2 easy-outs inside there. I was able to replace just the sleeve that the bolt threads into, without removing the reinforcement. I did have to cut an access window through the back. If it was the front one it would have been a bit harder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif) |
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| Jeroen |
Jul 21 2004, 06:12 PM
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#20
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,887 Joined: 24-December 02 From: The Netherlands Member No.: 3 Region Association: Europe |
Yeah, but what you can fab/fix in an hour would take me prolly a week (and the days in that week would be scattered over a 2 month period)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) cheers, Jeroen |
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