Apollo Racer Build Thread, EZ36 Build-Up with ITB's! Options

[76-914]

That looks like the sch from an Outback. If so it was located on the back seat,left side and half way up by the antennae/stereo junction. I thought it was part of the stereo and looked like a small amp to me.

[76-914]

I'm laying my plan out for the accessory belts. I don't plan to run A/C, and I have no need to run the power steering pump, so I plan to remove those from the system. The idea is to attach the alternator on the swinging end to a turnbuckle type strut connecting it to the engine case, and using the alternator itself as the tensioner, much like the layout on the 914. I've drawn my anticipated layout on this image.

Anyone see anything that looks absolutely terrible?

source the turnbuckle from a 944 r 928. they used that setup for the belt tensioning Very simple, and very effective (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Has anyone found a wiring schematic as to what is and is NOT needed for our conversions ? That is the part of this I really dread doing. I hate wiring (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

For an 3.0 or 3.3?

[rnellums]

That looks like the sch from an Outback. If so it was located on the back seat,left side and half way up by the antennae/stereo junction. I thought it was part of the stereo and looked like a small amp to me.

So my harness matches the diagrams above perfectly, I don't have a connector on the LH above the wheel well. Harness and engine are out of a 2001 legacy outback if that helps.

Scotty, I'm going to make a list of which connectors I cut and which I keep as I go.

[Chris H.]

On the radiator setup, you might want to look at PJ Haun's website if you want to put it in the floor.

PJ Haun's Site

Definitely want the fan to pull the air through the radiator, not push it as Stephen said. PJ has a fan under the rad and a lip to a create low pressure area.

I was dead set on doing mine that way til I saw Mike (Ruby914)'s setup.



He put the radiator a lot closer to the front of the car than most and then made that awesome carbon fiber ducting. Could be done in fiberglass too, which I might try.

[76-914]

That looks like the sch from an Outback. If so it was located on the back seat,left side and half way up by the antennae/stereo junction. I thought it was part of the stereo and looked like a small amp to me.

So my harness matches the diagrams above perfectly, I don't have a connector on the LH above the wheel well. Harness and engine are out of a 2001 legacy outback if that helps.

Scotty, I'm going to make a list of which connectors I cut and which I keep as I go.

My mistake. I saw the hatchback lid and.....duh. Go with SVO's input then. I remember the pump being in the trunk behind the R seat. It will be close to the pump. BTW, do your homework before selling the copper scrap. A lot of hustlers in that trade.

[scotty b]

On the radiator setup, you might want to look at PJ Haun's website if you want to put it in the floor.

PJ Haun's Site

Definitely want the fan to pull the air through the radiator, not push it as Stephen said. PJ has a fan under the rad and a lip to a create low pressure area.

I was dead set on doing mine that way til I saw Mike (Ruby914)'s setup.



He put the radiator a lot closer to the front of the car than most and then made that awesome carbon fiber ducting. Could be done in fiberglass too, which I might try.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) that's the nicest setup IMHO. I also plan to do something similar (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

[rnellums]

My mistake. I saw the hatchback lid and.....duh. Go with SVO's input then. I remember the pump being in the trunk behind the R seat. It will be close to the pump. BTW, do your homework before selling the copper scrap. A lot of hustlers in that trade.

Now I'm all confused. I can seem to keep all the models straight. It came out of a 2001 H6 wagon. But I still don't have the connector.for the pump in the harness. Is it labeled in the wiring diagrams?

[rnellums]

On the radiator setup, you might want to look at PJ Haun's website if you want to put it in the floor.

PJ Haun's Site

Definitely want the fan to pull the air through the radiator, not push it as Stephen said. PJ has a fan under the rad and a lip to a create low pressure area.

I was dead set on doing mine that way til I saw Mike (Ruby914)'s setup.

He put the radiator a lot closer to the front of the car than most and then made that awesome carbon fiber ducting. Could be done in fiberglass too, which I might try.

That definitely looks awesome. That's the route I think I'll take if the flat radiator doesn't cool enough. The floor has already been chopped out on mine by the PO, so it doesn't cost me anything to try it. If cooling is insufficient, then I'll switch to the fender well ducted setup.
Thanks for the pointing link!

[Andyrew]

On the radiator setup, you might want to look at PJ Haun's website if you want to put it in the floor.

PJ Haun's Site

Definitely want the fan to pull the air through the radiator, not push it as Stephen said. PJ has a fan under the rad and a lip to a create low pressure area.

I was dead set on doing mine that way til I saw Mike (Ruby914)'s setup.



He put the radiator a lot closer to the front of the car than most and then made that awesome carbon fiber ducting. Could be done in fiberglass too, which I might try.

This is what I have been wanting to do for years...

[76-914]

My mistake. I saw the hatchback lid and.....duh. Go with SVO's input then. I remember the pump being in the trunk behind the R seat. It will be close to the pump. BTW, do your homework before selling the copper scrap. A lot of hustlers in that trade.

Now I'm all confused. I can seem to keep all the models straight. It came out of a 2001 H6 wagon. But I still don't have the connector.for the pump in the harness. Is it labeled in the wiring diagrams?

First, I posted 2 pic's re: the controller and plug but listed them in my thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) IIRC 11 month's later, after the harness comes alongside the psg door it continues past the R back seat. At that point it split. Some of it continued to the back lift door, some of it went behind the R rear wheel well and onto some senders around the gas tank and the branch you want went directly behind the rear seat.Once it is behind the L rear seat it winds it way around and beneath the L rear seat and continues back to the psg side where it connects to the pump. The harness that the controller connects to is sheathed in grey and went from the harness behind the L rear seat then back about 2 feet and up about 1 foot off the floor. I think it is directly below the antennae junction on the L rear glass behind the L rear seat. But then again, I can't even remember what I ate for breakfast this morning. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) Kent

[rnellums]

So this may sound like I am taking crazy pills Kent, but there is no wire like that in my harness (at least not back by the rear seats). The schematic I have doesn't even list an R-122!

I looked up the schematic from a 2003 outback legacy than there it is, wire R-122! Looks like they made a change in the harness between those years which is disappointing in that I can't just go though and cut what you cut!

[rnellums]

I am trying to get a couple more day of driving in before I take the car down for the rest of the conversion! Also, my current engine and tranny package is going to be up for sale soon! 2.4L high comp with MSD, remote oil cooler, and weber 44s, and my built 901 with quaiffe TBD. Looking for around 40 for the package!

[76-914]

In your factory manual; is there a page in the wiring sch's section that reads "Fuel System" or Fuel Pump" at the top of the page? Should be 2 of them. One for the 6 and one for the 4 cyl. Also, Look for two yellow wires. One with a blk stripe and one with a red stripe. Those are the + & - to the fuel pump. Maybe work backwards from there. Do you still have the car available to you? If so, can you shoot some pic's?

[rnellums]

In your factory manual; is there a page in the wiring sch's section that reads "Fuel System" or Fuel Pump" at the top of the page? Should be 2 of them. One for the 6 and one for the 4 cyl. Also, Look for two yellow wires. One with a blk stripe and one with a red stripe. Those are the + & - to the fuel pump. Maybe work backwards from there. Do you still have the car available to you? If so, can you shoot some pic's?

No access to the car I am afraid. The closest thing to fuel system is "fuel gauge", but still no controller.


In the 2001 engine wiring harness it shows more connections to the fuel pump, but they all go to the ECU or the fuel pump relay, which is controlled by the ECU as well.

2001 Schematic



In the schematic I have for the 2003 model, it does indeed show a fuel pump control module. I'm thinking maybe I don't need it after all?

2003 Schematic

[76-914]

Yup, looks like your right and I may have over thought this entire thing. Because after looking at both I see no difference, essentially. After all, I have cut most of the wires out of R-122 and the only ones necessary are those to the pump and pump relay. The relay needs to be on a switched and fused circuit and as I see it the rest will follow. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Which brings me to: what the Hell does it do, exactly? If it controls anything it must be on/off. Because as I understand it the pressure is regulated at the rail, not at the pump. What say's the collective on this matter? Might have to take this one to a Suby board and get flamed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

[Chris H.]

Yup, looks like your right and I may have over thought this entire thing. Because after looking at both I see no difference, essentially. After all, I have cut most of the wires out of R-122 and the only ones necessary are those to the pump and pump relay. The relay needs to be on a switched and fused circuit and as I see it the rest will follow. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Which brings me to: what the Hell does it do, exactly? If it controls anything it must be on/off. Because as I understand it the pressure is regulated at the rail, not at the pump. What say's the collective on this matter? Might have to take this one to a Suby board and get flamed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

Yeah I'd be surprised if there is a separate "controller" for the fuel pump, what R122 might do is monitor the tank sensor, solenoids and stuff shown in the diagram which you won't use. Maybe the pump won't run if the tank pressure is too high which R122 is in charge of monitoring (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ? Ya know, stuff like that.... On the SVX the power to the pump is controlled by the ECU. You run it through the relay then to the pump. Simple, just need "on" or "off" I think but you have a different car so I could be wrong. If you still want to ask about it 25RS is a much kinder place than NASIOC. They do swaps there too.

[Chris H.]

Double post! Dang ipad! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

[AE354803]

Yup, looks like your right and I may have over thought this entire thing. Because after looking at both I see no difference, essentially. After all, I have cut most of the wires out of R-122 and the only ones necessary are those to the pump and pump relay. The relay needs to be on a switched and fused circuit and as I see it the rest will follow. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Which brings me to: what the Hell does it do, exactly? If it controls anything it must be on/off. Because as I understand it the pressure is regulated at the rail, not at the pump. What say's the collective on this matter? Might have to take this one to a Suby board and get flamed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hissyfit.gif)

Yeah I'd be surprised if there is a separate "controller" for the fuel pump, what R122 might do is monitor the tank sensor, solenoids and stuff shown in the diagram which you won't use. Maybe the pump won't run if the tank pressure is too high which R122 is in charge of monitoring (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ? Ya know, stuff like that.... On the SVX the power to the pump is controlled by the ECU. You run it through the relay then to the pump. Simple, just need "on" or "off" I think but you have a different car so I could be wrong. If you still want to ask about it 25RS is a much kinder place than NASIOC. They do swaps there too.

I was doing some reading on the LGT forum, it looks like the fuel pump control module adjusts duty cycle based on engine demand, but not in order to maintain a given pressure like the on demand fuel system, just to cut the pump duty (I'm pretty sure the Subarus still had a FPR at this point, mine is older). Looks like they swapped over to a compatible STI module because their legacy fuel pump control modules were limiting the fuel pump at max demand.

anyway, here's a 40 page forum thread if you have nothing better to do.
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/...-143860p11.html

[Chris H.]

Great work man! I (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Makes perfect sense once you figure it out doesn't it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ? This wiring stuff will make you crazy... So R122 just cycles the pump to preserve it when not needed I guess. Kent you're not even using the original pump for that engine right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ? Sounds like you MIGHT be able to eliminate that "controller" but you'll want to be careful with the wiring if you take it out...that's a complicated setup and it goes into the ECU it looks like. I'd do some searches on the Subie sites before you decide. Also might want to start the car once before you do that...

[AE354803]

Great work man! I (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Makes perfect sense once you figure it out doesn't it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ? This wiring stuff will make you crazy... So R122 just cycles the pump to preserve it when not needed I guess. Kent you're not even using the original pump for that engine right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) ? Sounds like you MIGHT be able to eliminate that "controller" but you'll want to be careful with the wiring if you take it out...that's a complicated setup and it goes into the ECU it looks like. I'd do some searches on the Subie sites before you decide. Also might want to start the car once before you do that...

It doesn't cycle the pump operation, but it does cycle the pumps power supply. It's a Pulsed Width Modulator, it basically drops the voltage that is delivered to the pump by supplying different length bursts of voltage that average out to whatever lower voltage they are aiming for (12Volts pulsed to average out to 8 volts).

My guess is they did it to extend the life of the pump/pump motor, maybe reduce evaporative emissions slightly?

I didn't find out what happened if the R122 was removed, I'm guessing the computer may get upset, possibly go into limp mode assuming it has no or little fuel? It looked like they grabbed some STI R122's and plug and played them, allowed them to get higher output from their pumps. Their whole issue was that the voltage the pump was receiving was reduced by the R122 to only 12 volts (even at max demand) instead of battery voltage (13.5 ish) so the fuel pump was not delivering as much as it could and became a limiting factor for systems that were at the upper end of what the fuel pump could deliver (they were pushing injectors to 100% pulse).

For whatever reason the STI R122's would give them a high maximum demand voltage than the Legacy GT R122's and that allowed them to deliver more fuel.