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> Zach's Carbs to Microsquirt conversion thread, 7/20/18 update
VaccaRabite
post Oct 11 2011, 06:44 PM
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I am retrofitting this thread to be my full on conversion thread, documenting my change from dual 40 Webers to MSII fuel injection.

Here is what I have so far, and what I need:
HAVE:
  • MSIIv3.52 pre-built box.
  • JimStim board for testing the MSII box
  • V3 main Board wire harness.

    Will soon have:
    Injection system off a 1.8 914, from which I will use
  • Throttle body
  • Intake Runners
  • Fuel Injectors (unless I find they don't flow enough fuel)
  • Fuel Rail
  • Fuel Pump (maybe - Joe may still need it for himself)

    Stuff I need:
  • TPS or MAF sensor
  • 4 wire O2 sensor
  • Bung welded into exhaust
  • Fuel Pump (Maybe, see above)
  • Other stuff I don't know about yet
The engine is a 2056, particulars as follows:
Built on 1.7 heads.
Jake's 9530 cam (carb cam similar to Web 494)
Mallory optical ignition
ACCEL (UltraCoil) coil.
SSI exchangers for exhaust.

My goals for this project are to have near stock intake noise volume, better cold starting - especially in cooler weather, negate the bad effects or Ethanol on carbs, teach myself something about fuel injection.

Since I already have a pretty good ignition system, I am not going to go after crank fired ignition at this time, but I am not ruling that out for the future.

Before I begin the conversion, I am going to pull the engine and do a little refreshing and cleaning, including:
  • Fixing an oil leak at the front of the engine
  • cleaning under all tins (not that I exect to find much, but its a good thing to do)
  • Fix some cooling tins issues that I have been living with for the past 2 years
  • Open up holes in the tins I welded shut so I can replace heater tubing and heat my cabin!
  • Check for battery acid leaks or rust appearance in the engine bay. Neutralize.
QUOTE
I am getting ready to start my conversion form carbs to EFI.

My goal is to use as much stock EQ as I can, but replace the sensors and such with modern, easy and cheaper to find stuff. Plus, since my car has a cam, the stock FI will not work.

My engine has 1.7 4 bolt heads.
1) are the 1.7 and 1.8 intake runners the same?
2) Is the intake runner inside diameter smaller then the 2.0 intake runner ID?
3) is the throttle body for the 1.8 smaller then the throttle body for the 2.0?

If the 1.8 TB is smaller then the 2.0, can the 2.0 TB be swapped in?

Are 1.8 injectors high or low impedance?

I am asking this as I will be able to get Joe's discarded 1.8 bits when he pulls his engine and starts going down the 2056 route.


Zach
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Dtjaden
post May 2 2017, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE(poorsche914 @ May 1 2017, 05:26 AM) *

QUOTE(McMark @ May 1 2017, 08:03 AM) *
MS, carbs, stock FI, etc ALL have only one purpose in life -- to accurately dispense the proper amount of fuel for the quantity of air entering the engine. Measuring the correct fuel amount for varying conditions is the challenge and some setups are better than others. But a CORRECTLY tuned induction system will not 'make more power' over another. Power is more accurately attributed to air flow. Increasing the airflow through your engine (by reducing restriction in the intake or exhaust, or by increasing the size of the air pump AKA displacement) makes more power.

Think of is this way, you can't take a stock 1.7 and just add more fuel until it makes 125hp.
BUT you can increase the airflow to where it makes 125hp. This is EXACTLY what a turbo does.

Thanks for the info, Mark. How about fuel efficiency, then? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)


With my Megasquirted 2056 I have seen mileage in the high 30s on the highway at 70 - 75 mph.
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poorsche914
post May 2 2017, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE(Dtjaden @ May 2 2017, 02:41 PM) *
QUOTE(poorsche914 @ May 1 2017, 05:26 AM) *
... How about fuel efficiency, then? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

With my Megasquirted 2056 I have seen mileage in the high 30s on the highway at 70 - 75 mph.

Thanks for that bit of info. Currently with my dual 44s I get mid to upper teens. Looks like it would be worth the expense to go with a MS setup.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
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Mblizzard
post May 2 2017, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE(Vacca Rabite @ Apr 30 2017, 09:27 PM) *

I'd like to know more about the PWM valves.

My biggest issue right now, and I'm pulling my hair out over it, is that I can't get the ECU to talk to my laptop.

Mark and the tuner were both able to connect. My laptop had connected in the past. I've gone through all the trouble shooting guides. Loopback tests work for the cable and serial to USB adapter. All the wires have continuity to the right places. All my drivers are updated. It just wont connect and I'm going nuts trying to figure out why.

Mark, could I get screen shots of your port settings? This is where I am sitting.

If anything here looks weird please let me know.
Zach


Did you install the correct driver? I had isssues until installed the drive from DIY AutoTune.
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jpnovak
post May 2 2017, 07:29 PM
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Are you running PortCheck at the same time as trying to connect to uS ECU?

The PortCheck will open and hold the connection and prevent the ECU from connecting.

I suggest to close the port check program, reset the COM port (USB adapter) and then run the ECU search function under "connection" tab in Tuner Studio.

If you can see the port, the ECU should connect, assuming that you have the physical connection in place. I had issues with the phono jack not seating properly at first.

I am a fan of hardwire connections not wireless comms.

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mepstein
post May 2 2017, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE(poorsche914 @ May 2 2017, 08:48 PM) *

QUOTE(Dtjaden @ May 2 2017, 02:41 PM) *
QUOTE(poorsche914 @ May 1 2017, 05:26 AM) *
... How about fuel efficiency, then? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

With my Megasquirted 2056 I have seen mileage in the high 30s on the highway at 70 - 75 mph.

Thanks for that bit of info. Currently with my dual 44s I get mid to upper teens. Looks like it would be worth the expense to go with a MS setup.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

I used to get mid 20's with Weber 40's. 44 is a lot of carb if you have a 2.0.
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poorsche914
post May 2 2017, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE(mepstein @ May 2 2017, 10:04 PM) *

QUOTE(poorsche914 @ May 2 2017, 08:48 PM) *

QUOTE(Dtjaden @ May 2 2017, 02:41 PM) *
QUOTE(poorsche914 @ May 1 2017, 05:26 AM) *
... How about fuel efficiency, then? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

With my Megasquirted 2056 I have seen mileage in the high 30s on the highway at 70 - 75 mph.

Thanks for that bit of info. Currently with my dual 44s I get mid to upper teens. Looks like it would be worth the expense to go with a MS setup.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

I used to get mid 20's with Weber 40's. 44 is a lot of carb if you have a 2.0.

It's a Raby-built 2056. I have a set of 40s I may try at some point. I used them on a euro spec 2.0 many years ago and got mid 20s.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
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VaccaRabite
post May 4 2017, 07:37 AM
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QUOTE(jpnovak @ May 2 2017, 09:29 PM) *

Are you running PortCheck at the same time as trying to connect to uS ECU?

The PortCheck will open and hold the connection and prevent the ECU from connecting.

I suggest to close the port check program, reset the COM port (USB adapter) and then run the ECU search function under "connection" tab in Tuner Studio.

If you can see the port, the ECU should connect, assuming that you have the physical connection in place. I had issues with the phono jack not seating properly at first.

I am a fan of hardwire connections not wireless comms.


I'll try it. Have not touched it in a few days. I needed to step away from it.
Its frustrating as Mark and the dyno tune shop were able to connect. I'm not. So I know it will connect, if I can get the magic right.

The other issue is not being able to work on it until late at night after the kids are in bed and I'm already tired and prone to make mistakes. Maybe some day in June I'll have a weekend day free where I can be alert and methodical and figure out the issue.

Zach
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VaccaRabite
post May 29 2017, 10:10 PM
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Bit the bullet and bought one of the refurbished Dell 630 laptops with the serial connections.

Man I hope it works. I'm tired of fighting with my Acer and trying to get it to connect with the RS232-USB adapter.

Zach
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VaccaRabite
post Jun 1 2017, 06:57 AM
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QUOTE(Mblizzard @ May 31 2017, 05:48 PM) *

QUOTE(Vacca Rabite @ May 31 2017, 11:21 AM) *

I got the VW air valve, and am looking forward to wiring it in on my car.
How are you getting the ECU to control it?

Zach


FIDLE using PWM was able to do the testing in the test part of tuner studio.


Putting this here for reference later.
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VaccaRabite
post Jun 6 2017, 07:36 AM
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The Dell laptop with the native serial port came in. Still not connecting but getting a different failure mode
In the Tunerstudio's Mini terminal, with the ignition on and the Microsquirt powered up, it is acting like its doing a successful loopback test. IE, anything I type into the upper window is looped back to the lower window, just like I had jumped the pins for a loopback test.

The cable does not do this on its own - it has to be plugged into the Microsquirt ECU.
I loaded up the newest versions of tuner studio and made sure my port settings were correct.

Hopefully this gets me closer to being able to connect. Thoughts?

Zach
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Dtjaden
post Jun 6 2017, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE(Vacca Rabite @ Jun 6 2017, 06:36 AM) *

The Dell laptop with the native serial port came in. Still not connecting but getting a different failure mode
In the Tunerstudio's Mini terminal, with the ignition on and the Microsquirt powered up, it is acting like its doing a successful loopback test. IE, anything I type into the upper window is looped back to the lower window, just like I had jumped the pins for a loopback test.

The cable does not do this on its own - it has to be plugged into the Microsquirt ECU.
I loaded up the newest versions of tuner studio and made sure my port settings were correct.

Hopefully this gets me closer to being able to connect. Thoughts?

Zach


Hi Zach,

Some things to check on the serial comnnection:

1. The cable sould be a straight through cable. This means that pins 1-9 on one side of the cable should connect to 1-9 on the other end. This us not always the case. You can check this with an ohm meter.
2. The default baud rate for MS is 115,200. Make sure that this is the baud rate set on the Dell notebook computer.
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VaccaRabite
post Jun 12 2017, 07:05 PM
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I've gone round and round with the ECU connecting.
DIYautotune support thinks that the ECU itself is bad at this point. Either the coms chip or the coms ground going bad will cause the echo I'm seeing.

They have recommended a shop in Virginia Beach that will test and repair the ECU if needed.

If the ECU tests okay, I'm going to bring my laptop, cable and ECU and get the tuner there to show me WTF I'm doing wrong. This is right down the road from Scott, and I head down that way about monthly.

Zach
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hot_shoe914
post Jun 12 2017, 10:42 PM
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QUOTE
This is right down the road from Scott, and I head down that way about monthly.

That's why you can't get shit done!
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Dr Evil
post Jun 13 2017, 03:41 PM
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Did you turn it off and turn it on again?? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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Spoke
post Jun 13 2017, 09:46 PM
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What version of Windows are you running?

We've had troubles with Windows 8+ running some programs that use USB or serial ports. It seems like the program is running but it really isn't connecting to the peripheral.

We had to turn off something in Windows which authenticated the port or program. I don't recall the exact procedure. Had to do it for several different programs.
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VaccaRabite
post Jun 15 2017, 07:23 AM
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QUOTE(Spoke @ Jun 13 2017, 11:46 PM) *

What version of Windows are you running?

We've had troubles with Windows 8+ running some programs that use USB or serial ports. It seems like the program is running but it really isn't connecting to the peripheral.

We had to turn off something in Windows which authenticated the port or program. I don't recall the exact procedure. Had to do it for several different programs.


The "new" old dell came with Windows 10 loaded. My Acer laptop that I was trying to connect with the USB adapter also has 10.

I hate 10. But I don't see a way around using it these days.

If you can think of what you had to change, I'd like to hear it.

ZAch
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McMark
post Jun 15 2017, 07:25 AM
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I still have the three spare tester units. I can throw them in a box for you today if you want.
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VaccaRabite
post Jun 15 2017, 07:42 AM
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QUOTE(McMark @ Jun 15 2017, 09:25 AM) *

I still have the three spare tester units. I can throw them in a box for you today if you want.

Yes please. Thanks!

Zach
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Spoke
post Jun 15 2017, 07:01 PM
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Zach, about loading a program in Windows 10, I described your issue to my colleague and his response is:

There's a special startup sequence that you go through with Windows 10 to load unsigned drivers. But you only need to do that if the driver fails to install. It sounds like this is a different kind of problem.
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bigkensteele
post Jun 15 2017, 07:37 PM
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QUOTE(Vacca Rabite @ Jun 15 2017, 05:23 AM) *

QUOTE(Spoke @ Jun 13 2017, 11:46 PM) *

What version of Windows are you running?

We've had troubles with Windows 8+ running some programs that use USB or serial ports. It seems like the program is running but it really isn't connecting to the peripheral.

We had to turn off something in Windows which authenticated the port or program. I don't recall the exact procedure. Had to do it for several different programs.


The "new" old dell came with Windows 10 loaded. My Acer laptop that I was trying to connect with the USB adapter also has 10.

I hate 10. But I don't see a way around using it these days.

If you can think of what you had to change, I'd like to hear it.

ZAch

Look on the bottom of the Dell to see if there is a Windows key sticker. If it was originally built with Windows 7, and the key is still legible, you can reload that version (Home Premium or Pro) onto the machine and use that key. There are registry hacks that will prevent an upgrade to 10, but I don't know if you even need to do that anymore since the upgrade is no longer free.

I hate 10 too, but it is "lighter". I have found that it breathes new life into some older machines.
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