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> Zach's Carbs to Microsquirt conversion thread, 7/20/18 update
peteyd
post Aug 2 2018, 11:38 AM
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Here are the settings on my idle control valve.

They may be a starting point for you .

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913B
post Aug 2 2018, 08:00 PM
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QUOTE(McMark @ Jul 18 2018, 06:04 AM) *

I looked back but couldn't find any info in this thread about your AAR, but if the one I was working on will work I can send you my adapter piece and you'll have to order a Hyundai valve.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=319149

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Hi Mark, any possibility of purchasing one of your AAR adapter piece from you if its not that terribly expensive?

I'll PM you.

Thanks,

Ted
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VaccaRabite
post Aug 3 2018, 11:00 AM
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I spent my lunch hour with the 914 today. After a bunch of YouTube videos I was able to get it to cold start without throttle input. But, the kPa was really high and as it warmed up the idle went back to about 1700. I got data logs and if I can figure how I’ll post them.

Still, put some miles on it and got it a fresh tank of gas. It’s first meal that did not come from a can in about 5 years. That’s a mile stone. I really like driving this car. It’s very different from when I had it with carbs. More user friendly though 2nd gear does not quite have the punch I remember. That said I looked down at my gauges at one point and was doing about 60 in a 35 and it felt right at home on my Pennsylvania country roads.

Zach
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crash914
post Aug 3 2018, 11:31 AM
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Great news!
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VaccaRabite
post Aug 3 2018, 07:52 PM
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Went driving today and logged it.

Here is the link to the MSQ file.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a36pwcb5cf42eii/2....17.24.msl?dl=0

You will see that the IAC stays put at about 160 steps and never closes. I need to figure out how the heck to get it to close. I have the crank start at 100 steps, and that is where the IAC starts when cranking. But then it opens up.
I have a feeling its because its looking at the air temp sensor (coolant sensor) and is thinking the engine is never getting warm. For the life of me I have not figured out how to change the coolant sensor to the head temp sensor for warmup purposes.

Zach
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McMark
post Aug 3 2018, 08:32 PM
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Post pics of your current IAC setting screens.
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Krieger
post Aug 3 2018, 08:54 PM
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FRICKIN' A!
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crash914
post Aug 4 2018, 05:26 AM
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Zach,
Look at this curve in the idle warm up duty steps.


You might need the curve to go to zero percent at say above 140 degrees...

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VaccaRabite
post Aug 4 2018, 06:40 PM
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Here are my settings.

I'm assuming that 0 steps is closed and 160+ steps is wide open. I could be wrong on this though. Maybe it thinks the IAC IS closed at 160?!

If any one can tell me how to get TunerStudio to control the thing by head temp instead of coolant temp (where do I find that preference tab?) that would also be helpful.

So much to learn.

In the mean time I've given rides to the boys and my GF in the car. My eldest (10) says I should drive it everywhere.

My youngest (6) said it was too slow. I told him I was driving it slow for him and mashed the pedal down. He screamed and said TOO FAST NOW!

Zach
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crash914
post Aug 5 2018, 07:03 AM
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head temp, coolant temp, same thing. It just depends on where you are picking up the temperature.

You can connect the coolant signal from MS to the head temp sensor, one wire, or to the oil sump sensor, one wire.

I have an oil temp gauge so I use the head temp sensor. Then under sensor calibrations, I recurved it at 3 points for the VW sensor. you can use 32 deg with ice/water bath, ambient, and boiling. measure the resistance at the 3 points and put into the calculator to generate the curve.

Don't overthink this. (maybe I should, blown up several....)

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McMark
post Aug 5 2018, 07:11 AM
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First, unless you've changed something, coolant temp IS head temp for your car. Think of them interchangeably.

Second, 15-Minute Warmup is for stepper IAC valves. Set Idle Control Algorithm to 'PWM Warmup'.

PWM Frequency is one of those settings that will be different for different valves. I don't know what this setting should be yet. I suspect that a high number (too frequent) will make the valve not close all the way, and a low number (too sporadic) will make the valve not open all the way.

Start Value should be the number that makes the valve open completely. You should be able to check this visually. Turn the key on and it should default to this Start Value, if you look and it's not open all the way, you need a bigger number OR a higher frequency. **(You can probably use this setting to test the closing efficacy as well by setting start value to 0 and seeing if the valve closes completely when you turn the key on).

Cranking Position sets the minimum open position while cranking. I suspect this relates mostly to hot start conditions where you don't want to be cranking with the valve completely open. So I would plan on fiddling with this number once you've got the other settings and cold-start dialed in.

Crank-to-Run Taper is the amount of time that the ECU will blend/transition from the cranking value to the HeadTemp based value. If, after starting, the idle is 'high for too long', this would be the setting the fiddle with. **You might be able to set this to 0 or 1 and then extend it as you see fit, if you really want to get it perfect.

I think you can figure out the rest from there...

Note: this post is based on my reading and general understanding of what's going on. I haven't gone through this process myself yet. So these are not answers just best guesses.
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McMark
post Aug 5 2018, 07:13 AM
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Oh, and my presumption on the tuning curve is that higher numbers are more open. So your curve should be descending.
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VaccaRabite
post Aug 5 2018, 08:29 AM
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I'm also getting help on the MS forums, and someone said something there that jogged my memory.

I'm pretty sure Mark (OC) wired the head temp lead into the coolant temp in the first place, meaning that the fact that its saying "coolant" means nothing, its actually reading head temps already. I'm pretty sure I remember him telling me this when I bought the setup so many years ago, and I just forgot. So, hopefully, that mystery is solved.

So now I KNOW that tunerstudio only wants to use coolant temps for startup. So your head temp sender needs to go to the coolant pin on the ECU for warmup purposes.

And for those how want to be completely confused, I'm running 2 head temp sensors. The stock location is being used for warm up, and a second set of senders are at the spark plug going to the cockpit gauge.

Zach
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crash914
post Aug 5 2018, 02:08 PM
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you got it! That is what I was trying to say.

Now I have a funny problem...I can rev over 5K with out loosing sync.
its not the rev limit, with the VR sensor, I have jumped it with different values for resistance with no change, flipped leads around, changed rising edge and falling edge. no joy.

Suspect it might be injector feed back?
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VaccaRabite
post Aug 5 2018, 09:33 PM
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Hrm. My IAC just exploded and let out ALL its smoke. Pretty impressive. I must have popped the motor in it tonight while playing with settings. Fun times.

I may have screamed like a little girl for just a moment.

On the plus side, my car has an interior again. And an engine lid. At least it LOOKS better. Lol

Zach
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McMark
post Aug 6 2018, 08:35 AM
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QUOTE
let out ALL its smoke... my car has an interior again. And an engine lid.

That's some MAGIC smoke!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

I double checked the wiring on the IAC and made sure it is meant to run on 12v. Everything matched what I already knew and posted here. I'm curious what happened.

I'm starting working on this 2.3 install this week, so I'm right behind you and should have some REAL help for you soon.... or I'll learn from you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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VaccaRabite
post Aug 7 2018, 07:00 AM
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So I think that this post will be the closing of this thread.

It may be reopened as I have need, but I've put a bunch of miles on the car (before I blew up my IAT and have to get a new one).

This thread was started in 2011.
Which means I have spent more time fiddling with the fuel injection then I spent restoring the car the first time around. Granted, there was kids to raise, a divorce (and the depression that follows) and a bunch of other stuff that threw me off the scent for a number of years. The journey had changed directions completely at least twice, and I have a whole bunch of unused MSII stuff I might sell (or..... *looks at the BMW*).

I TOTALLY wish that I had gone with fuel injection back in 2005 when I first bought the car, instead of spending years dicking around with various carb set ups and ever really being happy with how the car ran. Being envious of people whose car would start in the rain, or on cold mornings, or on rainy cold mornings.

This car has never run as well as it does right now, idle not withstanding. The engine was never this smooth. It is a totally different car then it was driving around on carbs.

While not fuel injection related, I need to talk about shifting. The shifter on this car has never been better. Years ago at Hershey I bought Chris's (Tangerine) demo unit for his shifter setup. I put it on the car while I was in the middle of the engine refit, just before the divorce, so I never really got to test it. My old shifter was not a bad setup at all. Rennshift, and all new plastic bushings everywhere. The Tangerine shifter mods made a night an day improvement to the car, and its still breaking in and getting better with each drive.

So whats next? I know I'm not going to be happy just driving it around - though that would be the smart move. Drive the 914 and work on the BMW 2002. But I'm also looking at those steel fender flares for my 914 and am itching to put them on and go 5 lug. BUT! I PROMISE I'LL DRIVE THE CAR TO HERSHEY BEFORE I TEAR IT APART AGAIN!

If anyone has been on the fence about moving to modern fuel injection - DO IT. Just do it. I'm an ape and needed tons of help. If I could get it done, so can you.

Zach
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JamesM
post Aug 7 2018, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE(Vacca Rabite @ Aug 7 2018, 05:00 AM) *


I TOTALLY wish that I had gone with fuel injection back in 2005 when I first bought the car, instead of spending years dicking around with various carb set ups and ever really being happy with how the car ran. Being envious of people whose car would start in the rain, or on cold mornings, or on rainy cold mornings.

This car has never run as well as it does right now, idle not withstanding. The engine was never this smooth. It is a totally different car then it was driving around on carbs.

If anyone has been on the fence about moving to modern fuel injection - DO IT. Just do it. I'm an ape and needed tons of help. If I could get it done, so can you.



This is what I have been preaching to people since i first installed megasquirt 15+ years now, cant be overstated but a lot of times people dont believe it until they see it. Its a steep learning curve for some but done right man is it worth it in the end

Glad to see your journey make it to this point!


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VaccaRabite
post Aug 10 2018, 09:20 PM
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About to fall on my face with tiredness, but I wanted to post some of my findings up with the Hyundai IAC.

Mark - you may want to try wiring with pins 1 & 3 reversed. Right now, following your diagram, 100% duty cycle equals closed, while 0 equals open. I have not tested it yet, but reversing pins 1&3 at the IAC should reverse those values so that 0 = closed and 100 = open. I don't think it matters, but at least for me having 100 = open makes more sense, and the lower duty cycle to close should extend the life of valve??? (maybe - guessing here).

Also, I stopped by a Hyundai dealer and got what they would give me of the wiring diagram for the valve we are using. I'll post that up for you if you don't already have it. It does not have much though. The techs at service looked at me like I was nuts asking for the frequency. Though there was a young tech that I immediately liked who thought what we were doing was super cool and wanted all the details. Also I drove the new Miata FV while I was there, which was cool too, but I digress.

With the current wiring, here is the settings that seem to have the car idling best. Note its at full duty cycle to close the valve when warm. Also note that the idle screw on the throttle body is open and closing it will change things. All goes well I'll be able to have another report in tomorrow.
Attached Image

My new valve has not come in yet, but the old valve seems to be functioning. I've lowered idle to about 1500 rpm hot, and am going to start playing with the idle correction screw on the throttle body (close it some to bring the idle down in theory). Well, tomorrow I'll do this. I guess I will warm up the engine, and the completly close the screw and tune from there. In theory, the IAC should negate needing the idle screw at all, and I can leave it closed.

The event that I thought was the IAC burning up last weekend was likely a backfire through the intake. Which still may have damaged the IAC. IIRC, backfire through the intake is too lean? Or is it too rich. I can't remember. And I was playing with settings at the time so its hard to say. Tomorrow I should have a new IAC and will measure resistance differences with my current one.

Oh! Another thing. We may want to go to a different resistor. too tired to figure out which way to go there. Checking voltage through the resisted ground I'm getting ~8 volts. My research is finding people with similar setups shooting for 5-6 volts on the resisted ground.

Learning curve is steep, but I feel like I am climbing up the curve.

Zach
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McMark
post Aug 11 2018, 03:55 AM
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Great work! Looking forward to your continued experimentation.

We just started fiddling with this 2.3. I'm approaching it from the perspective that ALL other sources of idle air are blocked off. We turned the idle adjustment screw all the way in and even blocked the small hole in the throttle plate (not all have this). The idea being that it's best to let the idle air valve control everything in closed-loop.

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