 911 Strut on 914 As, Ball Joint Question |
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| McMark |
 Jul 28 2004, 09:56 AM
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#1
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914 Freak!  Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None  |
Just got through reading the archives about 5 lug conversions and something I'm still not clear on is the statement that some 911 struts won't work with 914 A-arms and 914 ball joints. Can someone expand on this? I'm thinking that I'll look for 3.5" caliper spacing Koni strunts, but I don't wanna pay for 911 A-arms and steering rack just to have more torsion bar options and light rack. I think there's plenty of torsion bar options for my needs in the 914 world.
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| ArtechnikA |
Jul 28 2004, 10:07 AM
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#2
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(markd@mac.com @ Jul 28 2004, 07:56 AM) ...some 911 struts won't work with 914 A-arms and 914 ball joints. Can someone expand on this? the A-Arms are the same, dimensionally, but the torsion bar splines are different. the ball joint must match the strut. that's pretty much it... |
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| Eric_Shea |
Jul 28 2004, 10:13 AM
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#3
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,301 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains  |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
In 73 Porsche switched over to a new ball joint however, that should in no way affect your setup. Basically, the ball joint will follow the strut. So... If you have an early 914 setup with the solid shaft ball joint, you'll probably want to get the type with the locking pin (if that's what your new 3.5" struts are set up for). But as Rich states, they're (the arms) dimensionally the same in the ball joint area. |
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| McMark |
Jul 28 2004, 10:18 AM
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#4
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
So if I plan on replacing my ball joints at the same time then it's not a problem, just get the matching ball joints?
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| Eric_Shea |
Jul 28 2004, 10:37 AM
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#5
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,301 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
you got it Hamburglar...
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| ArtechnikA |
Jul 28 2004, 10:40 AM
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#6
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) you just have to make sure you get ALL the parts - the pin, the nut, and the washer - all sold separately. hold your breath - the pin is not cheap...
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| Eric_Shea |
Jul 28 2004, 10:43 AM
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#7
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,301 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Hey Rich... do they still sell the old style?
Going to Michigan? |
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| andys |
Jul 28 2004, 03:07 PM
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#8
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,165 Joined: 21-May 03 From: Valencia, CA Member No.: 721 Region Association: None 
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When replacing ball joints, is it imperative to install new locking pins and nuts?
Andy |
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| ArtechnikA |
Jul 28 2004, 03:13 PM
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#9
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(andys @ Jul 28 2004, 01:07 PM) When replacing ball joints, is it imperative to install new locking pins and nuts? the pins are hardened and quite durable. they're easily damaged, however, by people hammering on the threads trying to get them out. IMO - if the threads are not damaged, use 'em forever. the nuts are standard Nylock nuts and as long as they're working too, i don't see why they can't be reused. OTOH - they're not special, and they are cheap, and your day would be ruined if you had a strut come off a ball joint when you didn't want it to ... as hard as you have to work to get the pins out on purpose, i have a hard time believing that the nut is -that- critical - but i make sure the Nylock part is doing its job just the same... |
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| ArtechnikA |
Jul 28 2004, 03:21 PM
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#10
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Jul 28 2004, 08:43 AM) Hey Rich... do they still sell the old style? Going to Michigan? the old style balljoints ? i donno. i have a NOS set NIB, on the shelf, tho ... i am definitely not going to MI, and i am not going to MA probably - certainly not in the 911, although if Joy has got her new(er) car by then we might drive it up. i -think- i have one or more rod bearings in the 911 checking out (hot oil pressure is in the crapper...) Even if it's just the sender, there won't be time to do everything that needs doing. it was a great idea but the reailty isn't working out for me... so i think i'll be doing something to/with the 2,2 this winter - either replacing it with something bigger (2,7-ish...) or more likely building it into a 0,040" over 2,2(+) with 9,8:1 JE pistons but keeping the E cams. i have a proper Porsche engine stand on its way, and i might just be able to put that Anderson/Woods engine rebuild class to use this winter. yes, i know there's a reasonably priced 3,2 on Ebay right now - more than i can afford tho. i don't want to go that big in this car, and i don't want to replace the 901/911 gearbox (yet). after i replace the engine in the Outback, of course, so i'll have a wintertime car ... |
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| jim912928 |
Jul 29 2004, 04:39 AM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,487 Joined: 8-January 04 From: Granger, IN Member No.: 1,536 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I have an old vs. new ball joint question. I'm putting boge struts off of a 71 911 on my 914. It doesn't take the pin it takes a threaded bolt (looks like the strut "clamps" onto the ball joint. What would the top of my ball joint look like? I ordered new ones stating that I had the threaded bolt type struts..the new ball joints look like the old ones..solid shaft with a knock on the side?
Just double checking before I put them on. |
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| ArtechnikA |
Jul 29 2004, 06:07 AM
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#12
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(jim912928 @ Jul 29 2004, 02:39 AM) I have an old vs. new ball joint question. I'm putting boge struts off of a 71 911 on my 914. It doesn't take the pin it takes a threaded bolt (looks like the strut "clamps" onto the ball joint. What would the top of my ball joint look like? I ordered new ones stating that I had the threaded bolt type struts.. first, have a real good look at the socket at the bottom of the strut, and compare its condition and size to the ball joint. those sockets tended to get rounded oversize and when that happens, there's not a lot you can do. i've always thought some clever machinist could make a nice stainless sleeve to keep those struts in service but so far, it seems new struts are cheaper than that work... anyway, the 'original recipe' ball joint has a rounded scallop to capture the retaining clamp bolt. the 'new and improved ball joint has a definite angled notch. the early scallop balljoint can be modified to accept the pin (i've done it but i do not recommend it) but the later style notched joint cannot be used with the early clamp bolt style.strut. |
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| RON S. |
Jul 29 2004, 07:12 AM
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#13
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9140430841, FINALLY RUNNING Group: Members Posts: 1,216 Joined: 22-May 03 From: WALTERBORO,S.C. Member No.: 724 Region Association: South East States |
I picked up a set of koni 911s struts off a 72s that got parted out a few years back.
I took em and they bolted right on my 1970 914/6 w/no problem. The car has the threaded bolt type lockdown with early balljoints. It does let you have choices for brake setup. Ron Attached image(s) 
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| mskala |
Jul 29 2004, 10:07 AM
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#14
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R Group: Members Posts: 1,931 Joined: 2-January 03 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 79 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(jim912928 @ Jul 29 2004, 05:39 AM) What would the top of my ball joint look like? I ordered new ones stating that I had the threaded bolt type struts..the new ball joints look like the old ones..solid shaft with a knock on the side? Just double checking before I put them on. The old type that use a 'regular' bolt look like a cylinder with a smooth arc carved out, but the new type that use the pin have a v-type cut to them. Be aware, the bolts used on the old style can get chewed up pretty bad, and they should be replaced with the same hardness. I bought a bunch from a supply house since I couldn't find any locally. Will sell at cost (like 3 bucks or so each). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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| 914werke |
Jul 29 2004, 10:34 AM
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#15
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"I got blisters on me fingers" Group: Members Posts: 11,228 Joined: 22-March 03 From: USofA Member No.: 453 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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Ok so Im confused, but thats normal.
I as well am switching to 911 struts...late with 3.5" caliper spacing. That I can see there in no diff between the 14 & the 11 housing bottem where the pin enters the housing? My bigger concern is in my attempts to remove the castleated "nut" that screws on and secures the OE ball joint have destroyed the that nut and still havent been able to get the danm things off the A arms. Can these be purchased independent of the A arms? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) |
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| ArtechnikA |
Jul 29 2004, 11:25 AM
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#16
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rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
QUOTE(rdauenhauer @ Jul 29 2004, 08:34 AM) That I can see there in no diff between the 14 & the 11 housing bottem where the pin enters the housing? Can these be purchased independent of the A arms? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) this would be for the '73? 'cording to the ETKA, 72 and on got the 'new style' ball joints, 911.341.049.01 (i once had a '72 and it had oldstyle joints, but i also have no confidence any of its parts were original ...) the "grooved nut" is 901.341.425.00 and yes, the nuts and ball joints are available separately from the A-Arms. |
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