Ethics Question, Removing ABS from a Street Boxster Options

[Series9]

I have a Boxster customer with a brake problem. She's had the car for 140k miles and has taken it with her to Hawaii and back.

Late in August, she experienced a very strange brake failure about 50 yards from her driveway. The pedal went to the floor. She stopped with the parking brake. Immediately after stopping, the brakes worked normally again.

She took the car to her old mechanic, who replaced the master cylinder.

Last week, it happened again. This time, she was going 45 and had to swerve to miss traffic. She ended up in the grass, facing the other way by the time she stopped. Once again, the brakes were back immediately and she drove home.

When she returned to her mechanic, he told her the car was a liability and said he couldn't help her any more.

That's when she found me.



There are no fault codes stored or active for the ABS and she is now afraid of the car. She wants to keep it, though.

She's a school teacher who can't afford the $4000+ bill to replace the ABS (if that were to become necessary).

We have discussed bypassing the ABS hydraulically, but I told her I have ethical questions I have to ponder before doing so.




I would like your opinions, please.

[messix]

i think the liabilty of altering the brake system like that even though sound could leave very exposed legally.

[Krieger]

Last time I checked, there were tons of cars on the road without abs that work wonderfully. ABS= anti lock brakes. If the car still functions without the system and the driver isn't an effin airhead. Is there a legal aspect to it? Maybe have here sign a waiver...that will release you from any liability. Right? And no I'm not a lawer.

[Series9]

That's why I asked an ethics question and not a legal question.

People in this country are so programmed to the insurance industry liability mindset, that we have a hard time seeing common sense solutions.

[flipb]

A quick web search turned up this similar story.

http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxster-com...ntrol-unit.html

Rather than alter the system, could she achieve the same effect if you subtly recommended that she pull the ABS fuse?

[carr914]

I wouldn't do it. There are Millions of Scumbag Laywers waiting for this Case

[Series9]

A quick web search turned up this similar story.

http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxster-com...ntrol-unit.html

Rather than alter the system, could she achieve the same effect if you subtly recommended that she pull the ABS fuse?

Maybe, but the car will continually harass her that the ABS is not functional.

[Elliot Cannon]

I wouldn't do it. There are Millions of Scumbag Laywers waiting for this Case

ALL lawyers are scumbags. Right up to the time you really need one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[Elliot Cannon]

A quick web search turned up this similar story.

http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxster-com...ntrol-unit.html

Rather than alter the system, could she achieve the same effect if you subtly recommended that she pull the ABS fuse?

Maybe, but the car will continually harass her that the ABS is not functional.

I wouldn't do it. Why stick your neck out modifying a stock break system. It seems you have enough work on your plate without this. Think of it in aviation terms. What happens when you modify an existing design on your airplane without authorization from the manufacturer or our friends at the FAA? Would Porsche authorize this mod.?

[carr914]

I wouldn't do it. There are Millions of Scumbag Laywers waiting for this Case

ALL lawyers are scumbags. Right up to the time you really need one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

My Ex is a Lawyer & a Judge - I sure didn't need that ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)

[mepstein]

Don't lots of people modify their brake system by changing calipers, rotors, master cylinders for bigger, different, ect? Aren't you making her brake system functional since it isn't working now? Don't many of us change and modify all kinds of aspects of our cars from the way Porsche origionally designed? Brakes, suspension, fiberglass bumpers, 240+hp engines, V8 engines, ect. I don't think you are doing anything unethical if the customer understands what you are doing.

That being said, I'm sure there are lawyers who could rip you one if things went bad. That's just the world we live in.

[Joe Owensby]

I probably would not do it. Although it is a low probability, just think how you would feel if she or some later owner ended up getting hurt by skidding off the road or something that could have perhaps been averted if the ABS brakes had worked properly. I would not want to worry about that, even if she agreed to accept the liability. If it were for a race car or something like that this would not be an issue since people know they are assuming responsibility for their actions. However, for a general passenger car, I am not sure. Just my opinion, not a recommendation. JoeO

[76-914]

A quick web search turned up this similar story.

http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxster-com...ntrol-unit.html

Rather than alter the system, could she achieve the same effect if you subtly recommended that she pull the ABS fuse?

Maybe, but the car will continually harass her that the ABS is not functional.

I wouldn't do it. Why stick your neck out modifying a stock break system. It seems you have enough work on your plate without this. Think of it in aviation terms. What happens when you modify an existing design on your airplane without authorization from the manufacturer or our friends at the FAA? Would Porsche authorize this mod.?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I got to hang with Elliot on this one. Don't do it Joe.

[underthetire]

Just a question, cant you get a abs unit from the wreckers?

[bigkensteele]

I would advise her to have a lawyer send a letter to PCNA describing the problem and let them know that a law suit and press releases will be the next course of action if they fail to inspect her car and determine the problem. After what happened to Toyota, I doubt that they would want anything to do with even a rumor of failing brakes.

[Series9]

Just a question, cant you get a abs unit from the wreckers?

Yes. That's another possibility.

[Elliot Cannon]

I would advise her to have a lawyer send a letter to PCNA describing the problem and let them know that a law suit and press releases will be the next course of action if they fail to inspect her car and determine the problem. After what happened to Toyota, I doubt that they would want anything to do with even a rumor of failing brakes.

Exactamundo. This is a Porsche problem. Let them deal with it. They got lots more lawyers than you do.

[bigkensteele]

I would advise her to have a lawyer send a letter to PCNA describing the problem and let them know that a law suit and press releases will be the next course of action if they fail to inspect her car and determine the problem. After what happened to Toyota, I doubt that they would want anything to do with even a rumor of failing brakes.

I should expand on this and say that a modern car should not suffer catastrophic brake failure and not even leave a code. If it does, it would seem that there is a serious design flaw. This is not your baby - it is Porsche's. They should be given the "opportunity" to correct the problem and potentially save lives before you should put your reputation, business, and entire life-savings on the line to "fix" the problem by disabling a safety system. No way in the world should you take on this issue alone.

[Series9]

These are all good perspectives, but have you ever tried to get Porsche to do something like this? Even if it had stored codes, the car is a 2000 model with 140k miles.

They are going to say "We can fix that for $4000. It needs a new ABS module. DO NOT drive it until it's fixed at a FACTORY service center."

This car has not been under warranty for many years. Porsche does not offer lifetime warranties on safety items. If your $2000 airbag throws a code out of warranty, it's your bill to pay.

[URY914]

Direct her to the 914World.com used car classifeds. She needs a 914.