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> New A-x, torsion bars?, New A-x, torsion bars?
krau911
post Aug 4 2004, 11:55 AM
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We have been a-xing our 1.8 40,000 75 914. As we are new to the game...we have some questions. We have installed a new front sway bar, 140 rear springs and new rear shocks. Wo turning the car into a pure track car... what are my next steps (other than R tires, new motor and seat time) to improve the car? I was told NOT to change front torsion bars ... as it wouldnt be streetable then??? Comments? Also what is the best tire pressures for AX using my current street tires Dunlops Sports? When I go to Khumos, then what pressures should I use? Thanks from a rookie/beaten too often driver...Karl
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Joseph Mills
post Aug 4 2004, 12:33 PM
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If your swaybar is around 15mm, with your rear springs being 140#, you should have a good basic setup to start with for now. I would forgo any torsion bar changes right now.

I usually run Kumhos for AX, but ran street Dunlop Sport 9000s a few times. Using white shoe polish on the sidewalls to monitor sidewall rollover, and comparing times of repeated runs, I went from 38# to 30# tire pressure. These tires have very stiff sidewalls and our cars are pretty light. I run 7 & 8" rims, so if you are running narrower wheels, you could need to boost the tire pressure a few pounds. In the end, you just have to experiment in some organized fashion and monitor the results.

As you observed, seat time is a good step to take. Run all the events you can.

When autocrossing, keep your oil level 6-8 oz. above the full mark, bleed your brakes frequently, and don't make too many changes at once! Keep asking questions on this board when they arise.

Oh yeah, remember to have fun doing all this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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J P Stein
post Aug 4 2004, 12:52 PM
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After I put in my 2.7L, I ran street tires once....Dunlops....205 X 50 W10s or sumthin'. I got bout 200 yards before I was going ass end first (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)

Next time out was on Kuhmo V racers. I've never looked back. IMO, Rspec tiars are the BEST single improvement you can make...... **even for a beginer**.

I found the Kuhmos are good in the high 20s, pressure wise.
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Joseph Mills
post Aug 4 2004, 02:19 PM
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QUOTE(J P Stein @ Aug 4 2004, 12:52 PM)
After I put in my 2.7L, I ran street tires once....Dunlops....205 X 50 W10s or sumthin'. I got bout 200 yards before I was going ass end first (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)


I found the Kuhmos are good in the high 20s, pressure wise.

JP,

Guess it could've been your "tiars"....

Wouldn't have been the 2.7L would it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

Regarding the Kumhos - 26 & 28# seems to be the "magic" number for me.
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J P Stein
post Aug 4 2004, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE(joseph222 @ Aug 4 2004, 12:19 PM)


Guess it could've been your "tiars"....

Wouldn't have been the 2.7L would it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/w00t.gif)  :driving:

Well.....maybe (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I had a few AXs with the 2.4L.......bottom 20% of the pack. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif).......when I put on the Vracers, I wuz amazed how much more controllable/forgiving they were.
I immediately jumped up to mediocre & got serious (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Joseph Mills
post Aug 4 2004, 03:31 PM
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QUOTE(J P Stein @ Aug 4 2004, 02:53 PM)
I immediately jumped up to mediocre & got serious (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)



I just finished my 5th gear/3rd gear swap.
Still mediocre too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

But now I get to mediocre quicker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)
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Aaron Cox
post Aug 4 2004, 03:40 PM
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so that gives you a shorter 3rd and a taller 5th? or a shorter 5th too? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)
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tommy914
post Aug 4 2004, 04:38 PM
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I have found that the 21mm front torsion bars are quite streetable.
It won't necessarily make you faster at the A/X though. It's all about the balance.

Tommy
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Brad Roberts
post Aug 4 2004, 05:01 PM
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I have said in other posts:

"I'm sticking to the large sway bar stock torsion bar theory. It gives me more room for adjustment"

The Tarret bar or the 27mm Smart bar work VERY well stock torsion bars for anything down too 150 rate rear springs and up too 300lb.


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Dave_Darling
post Aug 4 2004, 05:46 PM
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Jesus!!! 27mm??? That's one big honkin' sway bar!

The 19mm adjustable or the 22mm adjustable should be a good match for 140lb/in rear springs and stock torsion bars. (No rear sway bar.) If the 27 is a good match too, you must be able to adjust it an awfully long way! ....Then again, with Smart Products, even that much adjustability shouldn't surprise me...

I feel that most hard-compound street tires grip best at fairly high cold pressures--in the mid- to high-30s, generally. I know I'm happier with my Dunlop SP2 tires at 36 PSI on my "other car" than at 30 PSI. Ditto the SP8000s on my 914.

My suggestion for the next upgrades: Tires and seat time.

--DD
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Joseph Mills
post Aug 4 2004, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Aug 4 2004, 05:46 PM)
The 19mm adjustable or the 22mm adjustable should be a good match for 140lb/in rear springs and stock torsion bars.

My suggestion for the next upgrades:  Tires and seat time.

--DD

Karl installed a 19mm Weltmeister, so his 140# springs should be a pretty good starting point. But I would "guess" he will have to set them to full soft to induce a bit of oversteer for AX speeds.

Until about a year ago, I've always favored higher tire pressures, so it has been a real surprise to me that the lower pressures work so well (even for my street dunlops).

But like JP says, tiars is a black art... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Brad Roberts
post Aug 4 2004, 06:46 PM
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Dave,

I have a 31mm bar in Trekkors car with 175 rears and a stock rear bar... he has now caught all the other BP guy's on Falkens.

The 19mm bar is worthless. People outgrow them in less than 4 months worth of AutoX.. I wont install anything smaller than a 22mm bar. A 22 on full soft is the equivalant of a 19 in the middle.



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Joseph Mills
post Aug 4 2004, 06:53 PM
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QUOTE(acox914 @ Aug 4 2004, 03:40 PM)
so that gives you a shorter 3rd and a taller 5th? or a shorter 5th too?  :wacko:

Aaron,

Using a 5th gear set in place of your 3rd gear gives you a shorter gear (closer ratio to 2nd). I used a fifth gear set from a donor tranny, so I still have my normal 5th gear also.

But if you do use 3rd in place of 5th, you will also have a shorter 5th (closer ratio to 4th). That's the downside to the "swap". And if you're running lower profile tires also, in 5th gear at highway speeds, you will be floating valves. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Make sense?

It's a great upgrade for AX. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
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Brad Roberts
post Aug 4 2004, 06:56 PM
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He doesnt understand that you FLIPPED the drive and driven gears for 5th and installed them in the 3rd gear spot.

(he does now..LOL)



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brant
post Aug 4 2004, 07:28 PM
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commonly referred to as a KL I believe.
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Joseph Mills
post Aug 4 2004, 07:37 PM
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QUOTE(Brad Roberts @ Aug 4 2004, 06:56 PM)
He doesnt understand that you FLIPPED the drive and driven gears for 5th and installed them in the 3rd gear spot.
(he does now..LOL)
B

Oh yeah. I forgot that little part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I can't wait for the next AX to try it out. It's going to eliminate a lot of shifting for me.

The shift from 2nd to 3rd is sure sweet. You really stay right up on the powerband. Feels like you're shifting a bike.

Course, when you shift from 3rd to 4th, suddenly you feel like you're shifting a VW bug. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Brad Roberts
post Aug 4 2004, 07:41 PM
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Yeppers. It works well for "free" basically. I have 2-3 boxes laying around that are converted. One of them has a LSD in it.. fun box. I also have a MSX box sitting around here somewhere.


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J P Stein
post Aug 4 2004, 07:59 PM
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As I said in other posts, I don't have any theories, I go with what works. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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Brad Roberts
post Aug 4 2004, 08:03 PM
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JP,

Do you EVER adjust your car or do you live with whatever you showed up with ??


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J P Stein
post Aug 4 2004, 08:54 PM
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All I have time for is tire pressures.....2 driver car & all. I've been caught doing pressure changes while the car is rolling towards the lights (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I never show up unprepared.....that's why the car never breaks. (I may have just cursed meself here)
I make incremental changes at home depending how the car worked at the last event.

SCCA: NO jacking up the car in the staging lanes. Miss your turn in line and it's tough nuggies.

Besides, It's the driver, dude. Ya'll oughta try it sometime (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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