 broken cylinder fin - will it effect cooling ? |
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| jimkelly |
  Nov 23 2011, 10:02 AM
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#1
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Delaware USA  Group: Members Posts: 4,969 Joined: 5-August 04 From: Delaware, USA Member No.: 2,460 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region  |
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| bigkensteele |
Nov 23 2011, 10:16 AM
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#2
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Major Member Group: Members Posts: 2,200 Joined: 30-August 04 From: Cincinnati, OH Member No.: 2,660 Region Association: South East States 
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Not enough to worry about. If they are new, you could run it on 2 or 4, closest to the fan under the assumption that those get more air flow. Not sure if that is a correct assumption, but someone will surely correct me if I am wrong.
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| sean_v8_914 |
Nov 23 2011, 10:16 AM
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#3
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Chingon 601 Group: Members Posts: 4,011 Joined: 1-February 05 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,541 |
I would run it. I would measure roundness to ensure that the fin snapping impact did not bother the cylinder.
one could speculate that there could be a modified heat path albeit far too small to measure by conventional means. it would be fun to have access to a lab and all the measuring equipment required to quantify this. I could also speculate that this cylinder would have to be pushed right up to the edge of heat soak to really see a cause and effect. I think DR Porsche estimated about 50hp each was as hard as he would push cast iron safely so maybe if your engine was pushin 250 hp + that fin might matter. |
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| jimkelly |
Nov 23 2011, 10:18 AM
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#4
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Delaware USA Group: Members Posts: 4,969 Joined: 5-August 04 From: Delaware, USA Member No.: 2,460 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
#3 runs the most hot - i hear - so - your suggestion makes sense.
thanks jim |
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| sean_v8_914 |
Nov 23 2011, 10:19 AM
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#5
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Chingon 601 Group: Members Posts: 4,011 Joined: 1-February 05 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,541 |
Jake Raby did data collection on individual cylinder temps with various cooling systems. parameters are too complicated to calc. I would live to read his data
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| Jake Raby |
Nov 23 2011, 10:25 AM
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#6
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,398 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
While one fin does make up some surface area loss its not going to be measurable.
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| sean_v8_914 |
Nov 23 2011, 10:29 AM
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#7
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Chingon 601 Group: Members Posts: 4,011 Joined: 1-February 05 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,541 |
wouldn't you like to have the time and equipment to measure the heat paths?
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| Jake Raby |
Nov 23 2011, 10:36 AM
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#8
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,398 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(sean_v8_914 @ Nov 23 2011, 09:29 AM)  wouldn't you like to have the time and equipment to measure the heat paths? If it really mattered. At 200HP and even beyond we cool engines with iron cylinders and stock cooling systems without any issues and CHT values COOLER than a stock 2.0 using the same cooling system. Above that output no one has the money to buy the engines; so it really doesn't matter. The crazy ones we do today are just done for fun and these days I am retaining all of those and not even trying to sell them. Its just away to blister the competitors balls. With the component quality degradation that we have seen in the last two years, it'll be impossible for us to continue building high quality engines at any sane price level after 2015, and it might even occur sooner than that. My data logging system can measure 32 CHT/OT channels and I have used it to measure CHT and CT on the same engine with 4 sensors on each cylinder. What I learned was critical to the development of engine combinations (that don't generate heat), but not so much critical to the development of cooling systems. |
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| sean_v8_914 |
Nov 23 2011, 10:48 AM
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#9
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Chingon 601 Group: Members Posts: 4,011 Joined: 1-February 05 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,541 |
does the stock type 4 cooling system have a hot cylinder or does it cool fairly even?
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| Jake Raby |
Nov 23 2011, 10:53 AM
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#10
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,398 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
QUOTE(sean_v8_914 @ Nov 23 2011, 09:48 AM) does the stock type 4 cooling system have a hot cylinder or does it cool fairly even? An entire hot bank of cylinders, due to the tangential flow of air produced by the clockwise rotating cooling fan. It can be overcome and with the right combination it can be reduced. This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Nov 23 2011, 10:53 AM |
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| JDW914 |
Nov 23 2011, 01:46 PM
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#11
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: 27-April 11 From: Toledo, Ohio Member No.: 12,990 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
I glued one on with J-B Weld a couple weeks ago. The engine is still sitting behind the car while we're waiting on other parts so I can't tell you whether the fix worked. It seems to be well attached and the joint is tight.
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| LotusJoe |
Nov 23 2011, 02:34 PM
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#12
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Europa Twink Driver Group: Members Posts: 406 Joined: 30-November 09 From: Southern California Member No.: 11,085 Region Association: Southern California |
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Nov 23 2011, 08:25 AM) While one fin does make up some surface area loss its not going to be measurable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) It doesn't matter where you put it. |
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| BajaXJ92 |
Nov 23 2011, 05:13 PM
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#13
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Extended Member Group: Members Posts: 2,146 Joined: 20-April 06 From: Prescott, AZ Member No.: 5,895 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
QUOTE(JDW914 @ Nov 23 2011, 02:46 PM) I glued one on with J-B Weld a couple weeks ago. The engine is still sitting behind the car while we're waiting on other parts so I can't tell you whether the fix worked. It seems to be well attached and the joint is tight. Make sure you register your VIN in the database. It's really REALLY helpful to future owners. |
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| jsayre914 |
Nov 23 2011, 05:18 PM
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#14
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Speed Up !!! Group: Members Posts: 3,210 Joined: 10-February 08 From: Timonium MD 21093 Member No.: 8,696 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
QUOTE(BajaXJ92 @ Nov 23 2011, 06:13 PM) QUOTE(JDW914 @ Nov 23 2011, 02:46 PM) I glued one on with J-B Weld a couple weeks ago. The engine is still sitting behind the car while we're waiting on other parts so I can't tell you whether the fix worked. It seems to be well attached and the joint is tight. Make sure you register your VIN in the database. It's really REALLY helpful to future owners. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) |
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| orange914 |
Nov 23 2011, 05:44 PM
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#15
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http://5starmediaworks.com/index.html Group: Members Posts: 3,371 Joined: 26-March 05 From: Ceres, California Member No.: 3,818 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(BajaXJ92 @ Nov 23 2011, 03:13 PM) QUOTE(JDW914 @ Nov 23 2011, 02:46 PM) I glued one on with J-B Weld a couple weeks ago. The engine is still sitting behind the car while we're waiting on other parts so I can't tell you whether the fix worked. It seems to be well attached and the joint is tight. Make sure you register your VIN in the database. It's really REALLY helpful to future owners. JDW914 stands for J |
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