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> 2.1L Bad Boy™ Engine Update ..., it's alive!
SirAndy
post Aug 18 2004, 06:03 PM
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after a few weeks of R & D the engine is finally running!

carbs completely rebuild, new fuelpump, new dizzy and a few more parts, tons of hours of swearing, tire kicking and head-to-wall pounding the car finally left Bill's shop this morning for her first prolonged testdrive.

WOW (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) don't know how many HP but it sure feels like at least 563.28, dude (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

what a blast! no problem getting her loose through the first 3 gears, yipeeeh ...


now the bad part:
got to the gas station (after about 4 miles of spirited driving). while i fill her up a guy points to the car "dude, your car is loosing oil".
i look under it and WTF? *huge* puddle of oil and it's still pouring down!
i roll the car forward and sure enough, there's a quart of brand new swepco on the ground.
after some headscratching and a phonecall to brad the conclusion is that the main bearing is going bad (we knew that, you can hear it whine on decel) and now that i put that much more power through the tranny, the main shaft starts to "wobble" due to freeplay causing the seal to leak like a syphon ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)


so, it's back to the shop for a tranny-rebuild ...

will this ever end, i ask you?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Andy
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Joe Bob
post Aug 18 2004, 06:16 PM
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Shit....I have an extra trans down here....you can have it.
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Randal
post Aug 18 2004, 06:53 PM
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QUOTE
what a blast! no problem getting her loose through the first 3 gears, yipeeeh


Great news Andy.

Come on up to FM... We'll have fun.
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SirAndy
post Aug 18 2004, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE(Randal @ Aug 18 2004, 05:53 PM)
Come on up to FM... We'll have fun.

you bet i will! FM it is ...

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Andy
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SirAndy
post Aug 18 2004, 06:58 PM
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QUOTE(mikez @ Aug 18 2004, 05:16 PM)
Shit....I have an extra trans down here....you can have it.

thanks for the offer! but the tranny is otherwise OK. shifts great (kind of unusual for a 901 i hear) ...

i'd rather have brad have a look and see if this one can be fixed.

maybe some gear-changes while i'm at it. ahhhhhhh ....
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Andy
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rhodyguy
post Aug 18 2004, 07:03 PM
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the sound of the webers kind of grows on you after a bit doesn't it andy? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . do you know what flavor of cam it has and any mods to the heads?

kevin
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Cap'n Krusty
post Aug 18 2004, 07:12 PM
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Having done 914 trannies since tranny school in 1973, that explanation sounds to me, well, a little imaginative. The MS is located by 3 bearings, the front, the rear, and the pilot bearing. If it were slapping around there enough for that kind of leak, the noise would be deafening, it probably wouldn't shift at all, and the problem wouldn't have suddenly appeared. I'd be interested in hearing what you find in there .................... The Cap'n
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SirAndy
post Aug 18 2004, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Aug 18 2004, 06:12 PM)
The MS is located by 3 bearings, the front, the rear, and the pilot bearing.  If it were slapping around there enough for that kind of leak, the noise would be deafening, it probably wouldn't shift at all, and the problem wouldn't  have suddenly appeared.

here's the long story ...

tranny was completely rebuild about 3 years ago. runs and shifts fine, no crunch.

it started seeping oil out of the main shaft seal about 2 1/2 years ago.
i went to brad's all914 shop in palo alto to take care of it and that turned into a 1 1/2 full blown restauration of the car. but that's a completely different story.
fast forward. car went back together last fall. drove it for a few weeks and noticed that the main shaft was still leaking. so i replaced the seal again.
this time i paid close attention to the condition of the case surface and the surface of the shaft itself. no visible scratches etc. all seemed fine. so new seal went in.
drove the car for a few days and the leak was back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
about the same time the tranny started making this high pitch "whiny" noise on decel, almost like the sound when you drive in reverse. this has gotten progressively worse over the last few weeks.
the general wisdom around here was that the main bearing(s) are going bad.
all the while the main shaft seal was still leaking (not too bad mind you, just a few drips over night).
then i got the new motor in. first time i take it out and put some real load on the tranny, it spews out oil through the main shaft seal. like a quart in 5 minutes.
i'm sure the 2.1 is putting substantially more load on the tranny than the stock 1.8 i had in there before.

if it's not the shaft *wobble* causing it to leak, what else would do that to me?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Andy
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EdwardBlume
post Aug 18 2004, 07:48 PM
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To quote Leslie Nielsen: "Its like sex- its a laborious task that seems to go on and on and on, and just when you think you've gotten somewhere - nothing happens."
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SirAndy
post Aug 18 2004, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Aug 18 2004, 06:03 PM)
the sound of the webers kind of grows on you after a bit doesn't it andy? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . do you know what flavor of cam it has and any mods to the heads?

is that before or after it stalls on you at the light? or while you're cranking praying it'll start up in the morning? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

- 2056 cc
- euro race "H" grind cam
- mild port and polish on rebuilt heads with new bronze guides, dual spring, solid rocker spacers
- 9:1 compression
- 96mm Keith Black Pistons
- stock crank 71mm
- 40 webers
- Pertronix ignition
- tuna can oil sump
- Sachs racing clutch and pressure plate, light flywheel

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Andy
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Demick
post Aug 18 2004, 08:16 PM
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Hey Andy

Great news about the engine! Bad news about the tranny.

I'll be joining you and Randall in Fm next month. Engine assembly gets completed this weekend and back in the car the following weekend.

96mm KB pistons
8.2:1 compression
#73 Webcam
D-jet F.I.
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SirAndy
post Aug 18 2004, 08:40 PM
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QUOTE(Demick @ Aug 18 2004, 07:16 PM)
I'll be joining you and Randall in Fm next month.

allright! this is going to be fun ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

better get me those slicks from Bill P.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Andy
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Jake Raby
post Aug 18 2004, 08:59 PM
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Andy, thats about a 120 HP engine at the flywheel with around 130 on torque..

Imagine 150HP with 165 lb/ft of torque and thats the 2270..

Was your leak at the bellhouse end of the transor the tail?? Maybe the input shaft seal??
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Joseph Mills
post Aug 18 2004, 09:44 PM
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ Aug 18 2004, 06:03 PM)
i roll the car forward and sure enough, there's a quart of brand new swepco on the ground.

so, it's back to the shop for a tranny-rebuild ...
will this ever end, i ask you?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)  Andy

Andy,

I feel your pain as I just went thru a very similar experience. After my recent tranny rebuild, I had to pull the tranny THREE times (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) to resolve a leaking main input shaft seal. It was dumping half a quart every test drive. Nearly drove me crazy.

Actually, it did drive me crazy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

I have a new respect for seals, and the little springs that go around them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
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Trekkor
post Aug 18 2004, 10:25 PM
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This is awesome! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Can't wait to see you run. Alameda or Marina? ( or both?)

Go Sir!

KT
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Carrera916
post Aug 19 2004, 02:09 AM
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Yo Andy...

Capt Crush got me thinking for a bit and dang, I hate to shoot questions to ya or anyone if it sounded a bit stupid to ask but gotta ask!

On the input shaft seal, the spring-band around the inner seal lip tends to slip off if the seal are not press in right....it's kinda hard to see if it's still in right place or not but that's something you can look into it by pulling out the intermediate plate with all the gear plumbings (long way to do it but the only way) and see if the spring band is is out on the shaft or not...

and the vent on top of gearbox....make sure it's open...the weakest point for the oil to piss out due to internal pressure, is the input main shaft seal! Probably some would come out of the drive flanges if the input seal holds up....

Other than that, congrat on getting your engine up and running right!

j

Let us know what you find!!
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rhodyguy
post Aug 19 2004, 08:11 AM
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dies at the light or won't start in the am? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif) . operator i guess (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

kevin
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Demick
post Aug 19 2004, 08:37 AM
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QUOTE(Carrera916 @ Aug 19 2004, 12:09 AM)
On the input shaft seal, the spring-band around the inner seal lip tends to slip off if the seal are not press in right....it's kinda hard to see if it's still in right place or not but that's something you can look into it by pulling out the intermediate plate with all the gear plumbings (long way to do it but the only way) and see if the spring band is is out on the shaft or not...

You can check on the spring on the input shaft much easier than that. In fact, you can do it with the engine in the car. Remove the right side outdrive plate which gives access to the differential. From there, you have a clear view of the input shaft seal.

Demick
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Joseph Mills
post Aug 19 2004, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE(Carrera916 @ Aug 19 2004, 02:09 AM)
On the input shaft seal, the spring-band around the inner seal lip tends to slip off if the seal are not press in right....

j,

That was exactly the problem I had. The first time we installed the seal BEFORE we fitted the main & pinion shafts - inadvertently knocking the spring off the seal onto the MS. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

I learned to gingerly fit the seal onto the MS and gently tap it into the case. Now it does not leak a drop.

I also learned how to open the spring by twisting it, cut a few coils off and twist it back closed to give it a little more grip - if you need it. Mine didn't, but Andy could try that.

Demick: Removing the outdrive plate is a great tip!
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JWest
post Aug 19 2004, 09:21 AM
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Andy, do you have a pilot bearing, and is it installed at the correct depth?
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